Whoa, I just came to comment about what Paul Lundgren would say. Damn!!!!


Go to Eddie Gleason (owner of Carmody Irish Pub) and talk to him. Or talk to the owner of the Lake Superior Brewery (right on 27th Ave W). Another good person would be Mark Howard (fisherman).

Paul, I think you mean, someone's liable to give you a Slab Town Smackdown! Libel is an act of defamation, and it seems obvious to me that giving a smack down to some one who thinks the West End is called Lincoln Park is not a libelous act.

Thanks for the suggestions on who to talk to. I wasn't trying to refer to the entire West End as Lincoln Park. I guess what I meant to say is the area around the park itself.

Aren't you from Spirit Valley?

Okay, would someone please clarify? I moved to the area 3 1/2 years ago (been in the region since 2001), and I was told after I moved here that "West End" was a pejorative term for the neighborhood that alluded negatively to the prevalence of low-income and non-white people living there, and I should call it "Lincoln Park" in my writing. Is this not the case? Who calls the neighborhood by which name? History lesson please.

Is Observation Hill a part of the West End? Or is it part of East Lincoln Park? Cuz if I don't hear otherwise, I'm gonna assume it's part of East Lincoln Park.

Also, is Piedmont a part of West Observation Hill?

The whole trouble with Duluth's street/community system is that people from here will refer to things as "kind of"  this or kind of that.  I had no idea there was a shopping center tucked behind Mt. Royal on Woodland, which is adjacent to Congdon and UMD...and my realtor said it was "Kinda" UMD but UMD is kinda part of Chester Park and where does Kenwood start?  When shopping for housing here and trying to figure out which schools belong where I just gave up.  

It's like the trail systems here in Duluth.....not much direction (or trail markers) unless you have grown up here and know where you are going.  I have been really lost at Lester and Hartley. 

I think the city could be way more "newby" freiendly, not expecting visitors to know their way around but providing better geographical identifiers for a common language. And "tricky border, hard to describe" does not help us.  It's like you are saying, "I know but I can't tell you."   Then please don't get irate at us when we make mistakes about what is where.

BC:  Good map idea....I bet Mayor Ness would love that to happen.....And that map could be given to realtors....Another thing that adds to the confusion is the "North Shore" when communities are called East and West even though we have to go through West Duluth to get south and East Duluth to get north.  I suppose we could move the lake to make it more vertical....lol

When I was looking for houses in Duluth anything from about 5th Ave West to 25th Ave West was listed as Lincoln Park.  From 25th Ave West up to "Spirit Valley" was called Denfeld.  Then there was Duluth Heights, Morgan Park and New Duluth.  Over toward the East side it was all East End (Lake-21st Ave E), Congdon, Lakeside, Hunter's Park, Kenwood, Chester, Piedmont, etc.  

That is most of the listing areas of how Edmond's lists the neighborhoods on their site to search for houses.. Oh yeah, Park Point too.

I always thought that the friendly West End stopped at the railroad bridge near Wade Stadium and West Duluth started on the other side. 

Anybody know where Lakeside stops & Lester Park begins? St. Michael's church used to be the dividing line but maybe that's wrong? 

How about Hunter's Park & Morely Heights. Whew! Glad I live in a rural township. This is all highly confusing.

Great details and helpful info...thanks, but....well....I'm really confused now...lol

Wouldn't it be neat to do a little sitcom based on "Who's on First?" and it could be "Who's in Lincoln Park/west/friendly Duluth?"   Or "No, that's East..."   I digress but it brings this to mind. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M 

(And I did really think Mt. Royal was a community, still not sure what it really refers to...the mountain, the grocery store., Royals who live at the Pines Apartments....)

Paul: I am 100% behind Snodgrass Middle School! 

Was Lincoln Park elementary renamed or closed? If that school is now called "piedmont," that is another poorly chosen name. (And thanks for the correction!)

And yes, quite weird: another example of how the Pro Red Plan School Board Members really don't know this city at all.

When I started as the editor of The Hillsider we were already covering Central and East Hillside. We decided include coverage of the area to the ore docks. I was told that the name of that area was Lincoln Park. I am just using the name that I was first told to use when I moved here. I am also using the name listed on the city map. The same city map that Barret Chase referred. 

Neighborhood boundaries are something that I do pay attention to. To me they all do have distinct personalities.

jmas,

Seems to me you have a story right here unfolding--that is, how ideas of place/identity/community get shaped over time and in various arenas of argument/contestation/power. The naming of neighborhoods, institutions, etc. is a fascinating reflection of local culture--I want to see a really good article that explores this through the specifics discussed in this thread--"What's in a name?"--a whole culture, it seems.

Right Claire, as a newby in town, the name Lincoln Park is more identifiable to me than West End. First off, West End implies an END - which may have been true many years ago. 

I'd like to see the story written from the standpoint of lifelong residents versus newbies.

Let me just say that Lincoln Park is a great park. I walk through it every day. Unlike chester there aren't angry runners or irate trail-rut-skiers.

Also, the Superior Hiking Trail runs through it. From the park you can go west and catch the top of the hill, to the east you go through an abandoned park to Enger (only crossing two roads!).

So, check out Lincoln Park. It is one of the older parks in Duluth. There is a nice kids playground and there are nice trails.

We have created a sense of community right here in this thread by looking at things from native (Duluth born) vs.newby perspectives.  I think it is fascinating how we identify ourselves and then the conversations that grow out of that. Lots of good material here, thanks for giving an "inside" look at the place-names in Duluth, especially these "friendly" guys in the pic!!.  It is so nice to see pride in neighborhoods.

Re: Lakeside/Lester Park, I guess I thought Lester Park was only the area back by the actual park. But then I've only been a Lakesider for three years.

And someone recently told me that I'm actually a Lower Lakesider because I live between Superior Street and London Road. But I've never heard that anywhere else, and I've been in town for almost 10 years.

Re: Lincoln Park, doesn't the green sign on I-35 call 27th Avenue West the "Lincoln Park" exit? Did it used to say West End?

(And Claire's right -- this thread rocks.)

Those occidental youths look set to lay down a geography lesson.  Pockets full of torn-out phone book maps.  Watch your step, interlopers! You're not in Portland or Endion anymore.

Claire, you make me blush. But heck, this is an easy town to love, and once you love a place, you just want to discover more about it, including its past. But as a late-comer (1984, the first time), I'll never have that inbred, Lundgrenesque aspect to my knowledge of Duluth History. There's a fierceness to it, like a mother protecting her young.

And it is part of my job to know the history, and I learn more every day: often right here on the PDD, where I am always happy to be corrected. HBH is also adding to her bank of knowledge all the time: she's currently working on two books for X-Comm.

I've been waiting for this day a long time. As a born-and-raised, almost life long Duluthian, I've seen my share of provincial douchism in this town. When I was younger, I told everyone things wouldn't get better 'till the generation that lynched Clayton, Jackson and McGee were all dead. Holy crap, I'm 50 this year! That means my asshole forebears (along with the good, I know) have met their makers. The younger natives and in many ways, the more visionary transplants, have made Duluth the most awesome place in the world! Pray it doesn't take waiting for your own 50th for that kind of turn around!

OK. . .I have to say this. . . you know this whole "Friendly West Duluth" business? I feel like you copied it from a town next to the one I grew up in. When I was a kid -- way back when, about the same time as TimK, ok, back in the '70s -- there was a car dealership and they had a TV commercial, which ended with, "Drive a little, save a lot. In the friendly town of Gilroy."

Rediguana, I plan to when I have the time (scroll down).

Meanwhile, I created a map of Duluth for our newest title, "Picture Duluth: Photographs of the Zenith City" by Dennis O'Hara (available May 1). It shows the general area of each neighborhood, major thoroughfares, parks, creeks, and landmarks. You can see it here in PDF form: http://www.x-communication.org/xcomm/books/pictureduluth_MapSpecial.html

Looking forward, one of the books HBH is working on for us should answer all the neighborhood name issues we've discussed on this thread, and a whole lot more. I will update the "Picture Duluth" map with neighborhood dividing lines for her book.

Meanwhile, my "Crossing the Canal" includes an explanation of how the other townships joined Duluth from 1887 to 1896. Also, "Duluth: Sketches of the Past" (available at your public library) includes a piece by Anne Stuntz Bailey called "The Towns that Became Duluth"  which is very helpful to the "neighborhood" topic.

Pet Shop Boys.

@bluenewt Sorry dude. They live in Congdon. They are indeed cake eaters.

I do not like to eat cake. 

Anyways, I always thought the dividing line between the Cake Eaters and the rest of the residents of the east side of town was 21st Ave. East.

This discussion about physical and mental boundaries when it comes to Duluth's neighborhoods, reminds me of when we first moved to Duluth. These people we met at some "newcomers" function started arguing whether Germany was really part of Scandinavia or not. Mr. Claire & I just looked at each other, both of us thinking, wow, we're not in the South anymore, where it was all about race, not ethnicity.  

As someone who's lived in only one neighborhood in Duluth, I feel like I never fully understood until this thread got going all the different neighborhoods that make up this city.

OK, I was pretty sure I had explained the east cake and the Lakeside Lester Park boundary issue somewhere else on PDD but I couldn't find it.  I did however find these two post from the last year where it came up.  In the first one I very clearly admitted that I did not get the West Duluth / West End issue for a long time (and I grew up here) so any relative newcomers need not feel bad about not figuring out the lingo themselves, yet.

http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/08/21/a-problem-that-needs-addressing/

http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/07/15/miss-west-duluth-pageant/

Slab Town Smackdown, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? This is a new phrase for me!! STS!!

Thanks for all of the great comments. 67 comments means this is a big issue.