I don't get health insurance.  If I could afford it, it would cost me somewhere around 600/month.  I'm hoping to be approved for health care through the state of Wisconsin, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I agree with you Jamie - lots of shouting and statements of promise.
I would bet that our President's website would have information regarding what is being proposed.
From what little I understand I have formed my own ignorant opinion that it will not be the saving grace but a government plan that will help those whom have no insurance or are under-insured - a public insurance to add competition to the private companies.  
Just received word that our small business carrier is ending our loving relationship at the end of 2009 so we will be shopping for a new carrier.

I work in health care and get coverage (mostly paid) for me, I think they pay like $500 a month for that.  My girls are not covered but they qualify for a state program.  My wife and son are trying to get coverage through the state of MN "Minnesota care" and hopefully they will both be eligible.  If not, my insurance will go up to perhaps $800 to a thousand a month, maybe more with deductibles, medication and all.  

After seeing Tamara's report I'm kinda wishing I worked for a union!  Or union job, as i have done in the past, the health care, insurance, vision, dental they usually have is great stuff.  

--

A healthcare worker aside, I was waiting to talk to billing at a certain medical facility ... oh heck, I'll name it, St. Mary's.  Anyway the billing clerk or whatever her title is carelessly, carelessly, carelessly left her door open so my wife and I could not help but eavesdrop on the conversation.  Turns out the patient was also an EMPLOYEE of the institution, and she was crying and complaining of how she wasn't getting enough hours to pay her medical bills, terrible sob story.  Isn't that embarrassing?  A hospital/clinic/parking-real estate mogul THAT big, can't even insure that their own workers can pay for health care.  I'm not (exactly) blaming them, I am just saying this is a terribly messed up system.

-- 

Another aside is that I think of how German, British, Japanese, Canadians, (even the Chinese and other less developed countries) compete with American companies for our business and jobs.  But it's a tough competition, in part, because Americans don't have a universal health care plan for citizens, which affects benefit costs on the balance sheet, and it affects the quality of life and productivity of workers on the morality sheet.  (not that businesses have a morality sheet or not, but if they did, health care would be on it.)

Perhaps we don't have a clear picture of the current proposals because, for example, in yesterdays illustrious News Tribune, "Woman attacked by Otter" was a front page headline, while Obama's meeting to explain the current health care legislation was glossed over on page A9.

Sad.

and..

ATTACK OTTERS OMFG

I guess I've been using the terms health care and health insurance interchangably without knowing the difference between the two...?

Resolutionary - Medicare coverage is more expensive in Minnesota that most states and less of it gets to the people that need it. Why is that? I would say that it is because of our great industry Blue Cross Blue Shield (in one word lobbiests).

That is again Resolutionary a great additon to your point about corruption and when executives in health care stop makeing such huge salarys I think we can all breath alot more healthy.

Another point is accountability. I mean that if somebody has less healthy habits they should pay more (cigarette smokers as an example)

Peace
Todd Gremmels

@ dbb...

your civil rights were being eroded long before Obama took office.

just sayin.

@dbb, p.s., you're referring to a document that was written well over 200 years ago, long before the current concept of health care/insurance existed, therefore the founding fathers would never, nor could never have known to include any provisions for such.

Why is this a topic of discussion? As de facto employees of the citizens of this country, the government's role is to provide for the security and welfare of the citizenry within its borders.

Article one, section eight of the US constitution.

It's not simply a question of what health care costs individuals (in terms of money or health)--it's a question of our so-called health care system's negative effects across the entire economy--it's obvious there's a problem.

Huitz,

That drives me nuts too. We're always told that you use "an" if the word following starts with a vowel. But it looks so weird when you use a "u" word... and I don't know why! Grammarians, any input?

consider this:
part of the reason why we're seeing thousands of jobs in the U.S. being outsourced to India, China, etc...is the cost of having them made here.
roughly 1/3 or more of the cost of goods and services in this country (i'll need verification on the actual figures...edge...anyone?) goes to paying for the health care of the people who produce them...in some cases, such as for example a car...the percentage could be a lot higher...

the current expectation of a lot of those who're opposed to health care reform is that the government (ergo, the taxpayers) is going to be saddled with the current cost of health care, when in fact, the reform plan provides for substantially bringing down the cost of care by limiting a lot of the cost that insurance companies, et al, collect. Bring down the cost (which we can all agree have become quite outrageous)...bring down the cost of health care, the cost of goods and services conversely come down as well...the end result is that eventually jobs could return to the U.S., instead of China and other countries (where they have more comprehensive and less expensive health care)...

then there is the reality that most people overlook...the VA and Medicare...are BOTH government run health care systems, as is the care that our elected officials receive.

it is logical, therefore, to conclude that the fault of the cost of production here in the U.S. can be attributed largely to the insurance and health care industry...

my bosses have to shop around for health care plans every single year because the cost of health plans here continue to increase by double digit percentages every single year. In six years, we have gone from plans that call for no deductible, to 1,000 dollars to 1,400 dollar deductibles, because the company simply cannot keep pace with the increase in costs and still be able to give its employees increases in pay and profit sharing.

Actually, there's part of me that believes the system starts being expensive elsewhere.  Yes, doctors receive pay that seems "out there", but that's not the issue.  I suspect that the real cost comes from medication, which in turn rolls from pharmaceuticals.

I'll go out on a limb and say the true cost of health care/insurance arises from drug corps.

It's one of the few industries where you don't always get what you pay for.  How can you?

Don't even get me started on the recent revitalization of the new drug sexual social movement.  What's up with that?  Let's see.  We buy drugs to enhance sexual performance, but don't care about people dying due to lack of intensive care?  How f'd up are we?

I suppose you could argue that sexual performance "helps" people, so you got me there.  But, just sayin.

O.G.Duluthian,

With all this talk of a government takeover of medicine, the evils of socialized medicine I haven't heard any conservatives talk about repealing Medicare.

For the record, Medicare is socialized health insurance.  It is run by the federal government; we pay for it with the payroll taxes deducted from our checks each week.  It is also extremely popular.  When Medicare was enacted by a liberal president in 1965 conservatives strongly opposed it, and the health care industry scared people to yell the same things they're yelling now. 

But Medicare passed and people like it. If a politician were to suggest cutting Medicare, their political career would be done.  Yet conservative thinkers still shiver about their defeats of failing to kill Medicare (and Social Security before that).

So with Orwellian irony Faux News, Rush, and the Caribou Barbie tell their audiences that socialized health care insurance means cutting Medicare. To quote Johnny Cash, "The one on the right is on the left."

If government run socialized health care insurance is good enough for our senators, veterans, grandparents, why is not good enough for me?  Why do Republicans tout the evils of socialized medicine, while vowing to defend and never cut the socialized medicine for the people who have it? Are they disingenuous?

Please also keep in mind 14,000 Americans per day lose their private health insurance as policies are rescinded, they lose their jobs, and employers drop the too expensive coverage. 

Please O.G.Duluthian! I doubt you believe your own talking points.

Resolutionary,

You missed my point. It seems that all the people talking up how great of a program ObamaCare would be are the same people that will never have to enroll in the same program that they are rallying for. My comment has nothing to do with the merits of Medicare. I have no problem with healthcare reform, but I strongly feel that the people that are pushing it through the legislative process, should also have to live and die by it.

First of all, there is no such thing as "ObamaCare". All the current pieces of legislation have originated directly from Congress, but I guess that's harder to distill into a scary sounding soundbite. 

As to the politicians should live by what they vote for, yeah you know, good idea... only that means adding a whole heck of a lot onto the current bills. I'd be peachy keen to see a Universal Single Payer health care system. But, that aint happening here in the land-of-the-free-to-go-without-insurance. So, we have something that seeks to minimize cost increases, provide assistance to those unable to pay for it, let you keep your current insurance if you like it, not allow insurance companies to drop you for pre-existing conditions, or when you get sick and Oh, to provide competition how about a public option which ensures a safety valve if things get too out of whack with the private insures. 

So, in a way, everyone who already has insurance, yes that includes government workers too, will be affected by what is proposed... everyone gets it. 

There CAN be legitimate arguments against these bills, but it is neigh impossible to sort them out when such utter shit is being spewed opposing it. 

Here, want to know a conservative proposal I think sounds good? Write federal standards for insurance cmpanies. Right now insurance is dealt with on a State by State bases, each State has it's own independent laws and regulations. This makes it very inefficient, and provides any amount of loopholes and. This is a good idea, suggested by David Frumm (ugh). Unfortunately, it is usually coupled with such drivel as reducing taxes on capitol gains (read: the wealthy), absence of a Public Option etc... But, the point is, if they would shut their whining traps and engage honestly, conservatives could bring good ideas to the table. Yet, they are not. Some, openly want to replicate Gingrich's defeat of heath care as a spring board for mid-term gains. Mitch McConnell, admitted he hasn't read the proposal, yet he is against it. Grassley railed on and on about "death panels", yet he proposed something very similar to what he was bitching about, two years ago and has now turned around and blamed liberals for spreading the idea of "death panels". This makes their bargaining  position suspect, and shows tremendous lack of good faith. 

We need a baseline of care, something that alleviates the daily catastrophe of medical bankruptcy, the utilization of ER rooms for primary care, something that ensures health care is affordable and we don't continue to shut out all those people who need it. Heath care is a libertarian's nightmare. It is something that affects all of us. An untreated case of flu because of lack of money can cause a chain reaction of sickness... and death. Health care is a common good. Anytime you incintivize common good by profit alone you set up a system of exclusion.

ChemE's are creepy and silent.  They design your drugs.  They sit in hollowed out closets and cut themselves (figuratively), which is much different than EE's, who stay up late at nights trying to figure out things that only a superhuman could do and they come to realize they cannnot, and the ME's who just like to sit back and watch everyone else freak out.  The ArchE's just have absolutely no clue at all what the heck physics (or chemistry, or reality, for that matter) is.

Okay, I'm being a bit harsh.  These very broad stereotypes have little merit; that is, unless you've seen it.  ChemE's do some good stuff, though, but almost always lies below their pay grade.

So, what's your point, huitz?  I didn't have one.  Just bitching on the old dorm life, and the dusty old souls in young bodies that creep behind closed and locked doors and refuse to interact in normal social arenas that hold in their hands the "evidence" to prescribe you something.