Got this forwarded to me in an email.

Looks like a protest.

duluth protest on july 30

22 Comments

pH

about 12 years ago

Is this going to be a dance-off or more of a Footloose kind of thing?

@ndy

about 12 years ago

As much as I agree with Wagner, who isn't going to be at the protest? Oh yeah, the vast majority of people who can actually vote for him and others running for city council as they will be busy working at noon on a Thursday. I understand the purpose is to grab attention of the city council and the media, but why not stage a night-time dance in front of police headquarters? Seems that would get the message across and allow more people to attend.

dbb

about 12 years ago

It seems odd to stage a protest to flaunt their disrespect for city government during his own city council campaign.

He should decide if he wants to effect change from within or without the system and then act accordingly. I doubt he can have it both ways.

eco eco

about 12 years ago

I guess the people who complained about the noise didn't find it all that "sober peace"-ful.

maria

about 12 years ago

a peaceful organized protest does not "disrespect" government.

ben boylan

about 12 years ago

everyboby cut footloose!

Rob Wagner

about 12 years ago

Hello.  Just some clarification-  As some might like to think, I am NOT the organizer of this ordeal.  I may have inspired it somewhat, but am not the person behind it.  I will however be in the vicinity of this protest, since I have to take a day off from work for my court date to plead NOT GUILTY on the citation/charges that stemmed from the June 6th 'event'. And no, I will not be participating in this rally, and I am hoping that whoever shows up plans on protesting in a respectful manner.  

:)

-Rob

ian

about 12 years ago

Too me it seems like protesting a ticket for parking in a handicap zone without a permit.

The event organizers didn't have a permit, the party got shut down.  

Just curious which rights the dancehall operators permit/license infringes upon:

ISSUED TO:  Those conducting dances or operating dance halls within city limits. This excludes liquor premises and private occasions.

PROCEDURE:  Applications are made to city clerk (with fees) and are subject to approval by the administrative assistant. Premises are subject to inspection by fire and health inspectors. Restrictions exist as to the consumption of alcohol on dance hall premises. See alcoholic beverage license information for restrictions.

ian

about 12 years ago

also, D.A.R.E. logo wtf?

Drug Abuse Resistance Education Duluth 2 Dance!

Craig Lambert

about 12 years ago

This whole ordeal is ridiculous in my opinion. I've held several events in Duluth and the city was supportive and very easy going about the whole thing as long as the proper hoops were jumped through. Getting a permit, a one off insurance policy and an off duty cop to work security was pretty much painless, inexpensive and assured the event went off without an issue. I brought 1/2 of the old Bay Front Blues festival sound system (around 40,000 watts I believe) down to Canal Park and played it at full volume until 6AM and had the full support of the city and the local police. No one is trying to infringe on YOUR rights by asking for a permit they simply want to know what's happening, when and where so they can be prepared in case police, fire, etc are needed. If you don't like having to follow the rules then stick to private parties in basements or out in the sticks out of the public eye. You can't have an "underground" all night party in plain view of the entire city and then be surprised when you get the cops called on you. Wise up. You are fighting a losing battle and only making sure that your next venture will be a failure regardless of whether you decide to go legit or not.

Rob Wagner

about 12 years ago

Ian, 

When a permit is required or an ordinance is enforced on only 'certain' individuals or a 'certain' genre of music, that makes it discrimanatory.  Does it not?

Do you realize that Arne and I are the first ones to be issued a citation for not having a 'dance-hall' permit in the over 20 years the ordinance has been in effect?  And that only 15 of these specific permits have ever been issued?  Put 2 and 2 together...  but I already know where you stand on the issue so I'm not going to argue with you.

The ordinance states that if one charges money for music, you are required to have this permit, are required to have fire inspection, and are required to have @ least 1 cop in attendance.  To have a cop in attendance will run you about $40 an hour per cop.  I'm not sure how much a fire inspection costs.

Here's an example:
So let's say someone is organizing a non-alcoholic music event that runs from 8pm-2am.  & expecting 75-100 people @ $5 cover.  80 people attend, so that's $400 bucks.  $240 goes to the cop (required if you charge money for music), $5 goes into the pockets of each of the band members (2 bands) $20 bucks go to the sound/lighting guys, $50 dollars already spent on promotion, and another $50 for the dance-hall permit.  So wait...the cop gets $240 everyone else ivolved gets piddly-squat and the organizer of the show loses money for all his hard work.

Seems fair to me. <---- sarcasm

I understand the public safety issue in regards to the ordinance but believe it's used in the wrong fashion.

Rob Wagner

about 12 years ago

Ian, 

When a permit is required or an ordinance is enforced on only 'certain' individuals or a 'certain' genre of music, that makes it discrimanatory.  Does it not?

Do you realize that Arne and I are the first ones to be issued a citation for not having a 'dance-hall' permit in the over 20 years the ordinance has been in effect?  And that only 15 of these specific permits have ever been issued ever.  Put 2 and 2 together...  but I already know where you stand on the issue so I'm not going to argue with you.

The ordinance states that if one charges money for music, you are required to have this permit, are required to have fire inspection, and are required to have @ least 1 cop in attendance.  To have a cop in attendance will run you about $40 an hour per cop.  I'm not sure how much a fire inspection costs.

Here's an example:
So let's say someone is organizing a music event that runs from 8pm-2am.  & expecting 75-100 people @ $5 cover.  80 people attend, so that's $400 bucks.  $240 goes to the cop (required if you charge money for music), $5 goes into the pockets of each of the band members (2 bands) $20 bucks go to the sound/lighting guys, $50 dollars already spent on promotion, and another $50 for the dance-hall permit.  So wait...the cop gets $240 everyone else ivolved gets piddly-squat and the organizer of the show loses money for all his hard work.

Seems fair to me. <----- sarcasm

I understand the public safety issue in regards to this ordinance but believe the ordinance is used in the wrong fashion.

"Dance Hall" Hardliner

about 12 years ago

Leave it up to Modest Mouse to write a song about this situation: "Well somehow or another I fell for every scam / But I was dancin' on the tin roof, cat be damned / Committing crimes running down the alley / I am the captain and you are in the galley!"

PartsGuy

about 12 years ago

If this theoretical event was the first one ever run, I'd not be surprised to see it lose money.

BUT, if the theoretical event went off well, I'd be VERY surprised if the second event made a modest amount of money.

If the theoretical organizer depends on just the door to make money, he/she'd probably be very disappointed. 

Just a single stream of income is not going to make a organizer/promoter money. 

Just my opinion.

PartsGuy

about 12 years ago

Crap. Second paragraph should read:

"If the theoretical event went off well, I'd be VERY surprised if the second event DIDN'T make a modest amount of money.

Apologies.

adam

about 12 years ago

"Dance-hall" (cabaret?) permit/license requirements have always been vague in this town.

The underlying issue, I believe, is "tell us what hoops to jump through." Otherwise, it leads organizers to the old standard: It's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.

Swan

about 12 years ago

Get a permit or go deep underground and don't bitch if you get shut down. 

I have done both without any major problems and have thrown many, many successful electronic music parties in the past. Some of which did have a city issued dance hall permit, Duluth police officer and fire inspector approval and they went all night long. I even rented the Vista cruise ships. Play be the rules, give the city their cut and you will have the legal right to hold your event. I once saw a Mpls promoter hand several St. Paul police officers $3000 cash for their "services" and the party went all night despite dozens of noise complaints from a 100,000 watt sound system thumping until 6 am.


For the parties I threw without playing by the rules nearly all went off without a problem but I did suffer a few noise citations, got shut down and saw some party attendees hauled off to jail for various drug violations. I risked my own money, time, equipment etc and when we did get shut down, the DJ's, light, sound and visual technicians were still paid (out of my pocket). As a promoter these are the risks you assume when you break the law. By bumping music all night in tourist friendly and tax-rich Canal Park you are asking for trouble.

Craig Lambert

about 12 years ago

Myself and others that have been through this all before years ago have been telling this particular group EXACTLY what hoops to jump through to make it happen. They just refuse to listen or think they know better. Rob's been around a long time, he knows the score. All this is doing is drawing MORE negative public attention to the matter and making it more difficult for future events to happen in the city. Poor judgement all around in my opinion.

Rob Wagner

about 12 years ago

Thank you for your insight and opinion Swan.  I am not bitching, stating some facts is all.  I too have thrown both underground shows & many successful events, so you are preaching to the choir on that aspect.  Never had any drug violations at any of my shows though.

ian

about 12 years ago

How did the not guilty plea go?

Rob Wagner

about 12 years ago

We requested a motion of dismissal rather than plead not guilty, they gave us another arraignment hearing August 27th.

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