Occupy Duluth snafu

The recent post on this site promoting Occupy Duluth appears to not be from anyone representing the actual persons organizing on the ground/in-person as Occupy Duluth (I say it in such a convoluted fashion because I don’t like giving the impression there is a membership, whoever wants to be part of Occupy Duluth is).

The link given for Facebook is to a group run by a random guy that doesn’t so much as come to our general assembly meetings (so far as I know, no-one I know has even met him in-person).

I wouldn’t have a problem with him running and promoting a group supporting Occupy Duluth if he stated his position and that he isn’t involved with the group in-person/on the ground but since he seems to be merely pretending to represent us without offering further info it’s hard to believe this action is well-intended and meant to help.

You can find more infos about the General Assembly holding/in-person action organizing Occupy Duluth group at OccupyDuluth.org as well as facebook.com/OccupyTwinPorts
and facebook.com/groups/ODsupporters — however this one keeps repeatedly being wiped of posts by some kind of nefarious ne’er-do-wells (I hesitate to say hackers b/c I don’t know how they are doing it), and will likely be replaced soon.

Also note — this post is an autonomous action by me and doesn’t represent the opinion of all the other awesome folks working under the Occupy Duluth banner.

Solidarity!

34 Comments

DaVe

about 10 years ago

Thanks. And please keep us updated here on PDD- not all of us want to join Facebook.

Jadiaz

about 10 years ago

"The recent post on this site promoting Occupy Duluth appears to not be from anyone representing the actual persons organizing on the ground/in-person as Occupy Duluth (I say it in such a convoluted fashion because I don't like giving the impression there is a membership, whoever wants to be part of Occupy Duluth is)."

Yet you go out of your way to say this guy isn't truly one of you. You don't have membership, or leaders per say, yet you posted to make sure that we all know this isn't truly Occupy Duluth or Occupy Duluth supported since the individual isn't part of your particular cell. 
Seems to me not everyone is a part of it unless they subscribe to your particular brand of Occupy Duluth.
What a joke.

Danny G

about 10 years ago

To clarify, this is the REAL Occupy Duluth facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/142911629152339/

Bridget Peterson

about 10 years ago

DaVe, everyone is strongly encouraged to look to OccupyDuluth.org for info. Many of us would like to see it relied on more than fb, fb is just uber-popular. I'm not actually sure PDD is the right place for promoting Occupy Duluth stuff, I only came to post here in reaction to an earlier post I was concerned about. Now that the ground's been broken, perhaps I will share events here now and then. 

Jadiaz, my intent is to say he is not involved with the people who have been organizing events and meetings as Occupy Duluth for the past 5 months or so, and he seems to be trying to pass his fb group off as the means to be in touch with that group of people. I just want people to be aware he's not connecting you with the people that post purports to connect you with. 

My main concern is connecting people who are looking for news about those of us who have been organizing for some time under the Occupy Duluth name with the info they seek.
 
Also, we did have an unfortunate problem in the past with a fb group created claiming to be Occupy Duluth with malicious intent - they ran a slew of posts planning a violent attack on City Hall which had the police out in droves the next day keeping an eye on our encampment at the Civic Center and led the police chief to claim an influx of "violent anarchists" to Occupy Duluth in the media. I don't know if the fb group we're discussing here was created with any similar intentions but it does give me cause to be wary and want to distance the organizers who've been working under the name Occupy Duluth so far from an unrelated person/persons just in case. 

We have to use some title to identify ourselves and I just want to minimize confusion between us and another person who apparently has decided to work separately under the same banner. 

Again this post is an autonomous action and I don't claim to represent the opinion of anyone else labouring under the Occupy Duluth banner.

adam

about 10 years ago

Again: you folks seriously suck at informing the general public as to when and where you are doing stuff.

One sentence. "We meet this DAY at this TIME at this PLACE."

Your Facebook has a fucking "events" page. Use it.

DaVe

about 10 years ago

Thanks for the word about OccupyDuluth.org, Bridgette. Of course the sociopaths running Wall St. and our government are full of dirty tricks. And that is constructive criticism above, however grumpy.

Ralph

about 10 years ago

If organization was their strong suit, they would more likely BE the 1% not against the 1%.

adam

about 10 years ago

That is the biggest line of BS.

jonbenet31

about 10 years ago

Occupy Duluth infighting is awesome!  Are there now rival 'Occupy' factions? 

Solidarity!

Bridget Peterson

about 10 years ago

I totally agree we really suck at getting the word out to the public about our general assemblies. Part of the problem is having no base, we've been having them in varying locations. Another part is that some kind of "hackers" have been wiping all posts from the page we were regularly using on Facebook and then when we made a new page, from that one. Occupy Twin Ports was actually a related page admined by a couple people not in deep in involvement with Occupy Duluth that we've just started trying to use regularly recently. 

And another part is just that we suck, and need to get our ducks better aligned. An egregious example: we'd planned to have tonight's general assembly in City Hall if it was open late enough. In not hearing from the person who was supposed to check on that, I almost assumed we didn't hear from them because there wasn't a problem. Fortunately I decided it'd be best to check, and found out it isn't open late enough. So we have to go to our second choice location, which is a circular vestibule toward the back (side facing lake) of the DECC, second floor, also is at the end of the skyway. 

As you can see, I suck at describing where it even is. This is irksome. It will be improved.

I don't think we have rival factions, just a lack of clarity in communication. At least, I hope that's it. I think the fellow that runs the other group just wants people who can't come to our in-person events and meetings to be taken more seriously than he felt we were taking them. He said a lot to that effect when he was more voluble in our group. I don't have a problem with him having an online-centric Occupy Duluth group so long as it's clear he's not involved with the folks who have been organizing things as Occupy Duluth on the ground here in Duluth. And we certainly have no problem with him getting involved with us, but we are primarily an offline group doing most of our planning and organizing in person.

Bridget Peterson

about 10 years ago

Oh yeah, in case of any actual interest, I should mention that it's at 7. 
I bet I told you all way more than you wanted to know, just feeling exasperated myself tonight about these organizational matters. (:
(once again, representing only my own opinions and not others identifying as part of Occupy Duluth)

zra

about 10 years ago

Autonomous solidarity? Oxymoron?

Biff Nimrod

about 10 years ago

Ever try to get a group of anarchists together? Like herdin' cats but not nearly as fun.

DaVe

about 10 years ago

It would be so much easier if y'all were a bunch of lock-step, group-think ditto heads.

carla

about 10 years ago

This makes my heart hurt....

Vicarious

about 10 years ago

Remind me: What are you occupying? And why?

zra

about 10 years ago

Great concept, lackluster followthrough. "Autonomy" was used as a cop out for doing punkass things like ... piss off the police, for example.

jessige

about 10 years ago

Zra +1.  I really, really wanted to support the Occupy movement, but the lack of organization equates in my mind to a lack of maturity.  If you can't even get a consistent media message out, how can you expect to attract more participants?  There's a difference between exercising authority over each other and implementing a structure.  From my limited knowledge, it appears to me that the Occupy Duluth group has had some trouble seeing that difference.

zra

about 10 years ago

Toward the end of the "occupation" it seemed like the kids were more interested in picking a fight than actually trying to accomplish something positive.

Having been through exposure training in the past, I can find nothing positive about getting pepper spray in my eyes.

If you wanna be a martyr, that's fine and good ... if you want to be "autonomous," good on ya ... more power to ya ... be autonomous, but don't hide behind Occupy when you get your ass arrested.

DaVe

about 10 years ago

The Occupy Movement was totally successful in changing the dialogue in this country. They have brought many of our society's failings into the media spotlight. People want simplistic statements from them, but grassroots , democratic change is not simple. I bet the critics here have jobs and homes and a fair amount of security. What are the rest of us doing to better this world for those that don't have those things? And when the Occupy folks do civil disobedience they are supposed to be subject to arrest, not subject to beatings and pepper spray ( I'm not talking about Duluth police here). That the police elsewhere have been so violent shows that the Occupy Movement has hit the bull's eye with their protests- the Big Money Power behind our bought-and sold "democracy."

zra

about 10 years ago

Like i said, daVe ... great concept, poor follow through. But it seemed like a case of "well, we're here ... like it or not ... now what do we do?" they had a lot of support from a lot of people both physically and monetarily, but their "autonomous" actions turned a lot of support away, and they alienated the people they should have been trying to win over.

Occupy needs to look past "autonomy" and realize that "autonomy" means nothing if there's no cohesion in their message. Autonomy is "I," occupy is "We." They need to look past "I" and focus on "We."

Endion

about 10 years ago

If I own a house in Duluth and live in it aren't I technically "occupying Duluth?"

I am behind the idea of the occupy movements, but I agree that they need a better message. Or I should say a clearer stance with a plan of action. We all wish we had more money, but just calling rich people the 1% and putting up tents to complain does't seem like a strategy.. 

Make up 5 points that you are against and offer ways to correct the income inequality. 
1. The Glass Steagall Act needs to be reinstated.
2. Health care for all Americans
3. Punishment to bank heads who destroyed the economy.
4. Close for profit prisons and punish corrupt judges who filled them.
5. Create a tax code that has incentives that create jobs here instead of overseas.

And more stuff, but instead if fighting about who is in the club give the club a message.

DaVe

about 10 years ago

I think in the context of this post, "autonomous" is just meant to mean " I'm just speaking for myself."  The protests themselves are obviously about "We" not "Me." 

As far as follow through goes, this thing is just beginning. Did anyone criticize Rosa Parks for "lack of follow through" after she refused to sit in the back of that bus?  The follow through materialized, though the civil rights struggle continues to this day. 

Good points, Endion.

DaVe

about 10 years ago

I think in the context of this post, "autonomous" is just meant to mean " I'm just speaking for myself."  The protests themselves are obviously about "WE" not "ME." 
As far as follow through goes, this thing is just beginning. Did anyone criticize Rosa Parks for " lack of follow through" after she refused to sit in the back of that bus?  The follow through materialized, though the civil rights struggle continues to this day. 
Good points, Endion.

zra

about 10 years ago

You are possibly correct, daVe, I'm not denying your opinion. I have a little more information on the inside workings of things to go on, though, about the conflicts within the group, the politics and infighting.

What they fail to realize is that when they act autonomously, the heavy hand comes down on the group as a whole. I guess that was the message I was trying to get across.

digit3

about 10 years ago

"If organization was their strong suit, they would more likely BE the 1% not against the 1%."

LMFAO!

zra

about 10 years ago

"If organization was their strong suit, they would more likely BE the 1% not against the 1%."

That's assuming the 99% is concerned with being wealthy. So not the case.

EvilJeffy

about 10 years ago

Irony, I was explaining to some occupy people just last night that not having a message and just randomly jumping from subject to subject will result in them having no support and not being able to further anything.
Pick a message, consolidate on it, hammer it home.  Pick your points, craft your message, you do not need to have you twelve points of contention that everyone speaks lockstep, have each person choose the issue that is the most important to you and determine if those issues are the ones that are the most important to be doing RIGHT NOW.  Once you have your short list of issues to do RIGHT NOW, do them.  If you try to do everything at once you accomplish nothing.

Ralph

about 10 years ago

Take it for what it was, a bit of humor.

Ughnaught

about 10 years ago

Personally, whenever I see an Occupy Something it's college kids whining and complaining. Something with the Tea Party, 40-50 white people whining and complaining. I will start listening when people who actually have jobs and don't have the seniority and vacation time to go marching or protesting. That's when you know something is wrong when people who cannot afford to miss work are missing work to fight an injustice.

Endion

about 10 years ago

Nice one? So I bet slaves would have liked a day off of work to protest too.

We are so in debt that it is impossible for everyone to protest. Maybe if we built up this country and supported the workers more we would be able to take a more active role in the government. I applaud the brave people who stood outside in cold temperatures to stand up for humanity. I wish they were more organized or that it made a bigger difference, but it didn't.

Ughnaught, you sound defeated or like someone who makes so much money that they are the 1%.  Do you think it is right that the children of the WalMart family make more than 90% of ALL Americans put together? This goes on while WalMart doesn't pay their employees a living wage.  

It is the race to the bottom these days. We were endowed by our creator to at least be given life, liberty, and property according to John Locke. If we are supposed to be assured that our government will protect our lives, how can it allow a family like the WalMarts to not provide health insurance to its employees when they are living in opulence?  Henry Ford paid 90% income tax and was happy doing it as it made this country stronger. 

If we all want to work for WalMart and the founder's rich kids than let's continue our race to the bottom. Let's allow companies to hire people to work 39 hours a week so they don't have to pay for health insurance. Then let's not tax the company because they create jobs. Then let's let the company move overseas and leave the workers behind. Than let's expect the town's WalMart to pick up the unemployed workers.

The best way to get rid of the occupy movement is to have decent jobs for them to get so they won't be out there protesting. We should be standing together and supporting each other for a better life.

Bridget Peterson

about 10 years ago

I don't really have the energy to try to defend or explain our validity(and there are numerous explanations to be found online as to why Occupy exists, much better written than anything I could muster), and to people with great ideas as to how we can improve, please, come join us at a G.A. and throw your however many cents in, we'd love to have you. (: 

All I meant when I mentioned autonomy is that this posting on this site is just me acting on my own and not speaking for the group, I'm not trying to say all of Occupy Duluth was my own autonomous action, that'd be ludicrous and my comrades would be more than a little pissed at me. 

Here in Duluth(and in most/all of the Occupy groups I have personal direct knowledge of as well as groups I've seen photographs of) we have a pretty diverse array of people involved. Yeah, there are a couple college students, there's also some veterans, seasoned activists, newbie activists, Union folk, unemployed and employed people; of all ages from at least 18-60. And we had even more variety of folks getting involved while we still had a camp for them to come find us easily. It would be nice to have more racial diversity here as well.

 Weird. I don't feel like we've actually had  much infighting. People get into silly interpersonal arguments here and there but they get resolved and don't have alot to do with the work of the group as a whole. We have some issues with how well organized we are and agreeing on, committing to, and following through well in doing things. As I think has been noted. (:

 Anyway, enough of my rambling.We're having a general assembly Wednesday in the basement of the Duluth Retro Antique Mall, 118 E 1st St, 7p.m. Come share your criticisms and ideas and help Occupy Duluth

Bridget Peterson

about 10 years ago

er. ...  help Occupy Duluth improve. Oops. 

I believe there have been many employed people involved in Occupy or other protesting all over the world recently. There also workers on strike, currently Manitowoc Crane Machinists(http://www.fightbacknews.org/2011/12/12/manitowoc-machinists-strike), that's a form of protest as well and they most certainly have jobs. 
I know hundreds of thousands of folks with jobs protested in Wisconsin in February and March, occupying the capitol building there and holding huge rallies and marches in the streets. 
I speak of that b/c I was there and am familiar with it first hand, not b/c I don't think the current Occupy movement has any employed persons involved.
 I'm not really sure why not being able to find a job or being layed off in the current difficult climate for employment makes someone's voice less valid, but there ARE employed people demonstrating and supporting the Occupy movements. Who do you think buys the pizza? :P

zra

about 10 years ago

Just an FYI: the hour per week cutoff for health benefits is 36, not 39.

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