Perfect Duluth Intersection

I would like to nominate the intersection of 19th Ave E and 8th St for Most Courteous and Cordial to go through (unless it is freezing rain and a skating rink – cue video;). Among all the other intersections or four way stops in Duluth it is the best. Could it be a macrocosm of people who actually remember driver’s ed and training? I will leave it up to the masses to comment on the worst intersection.

33 Comments

chadp

about 11 years ago

I had two meat-heads swear at me for riding my bike through that intersection last spring. Apparently they didn't like that I was next.  More often than not people patiently wait but I still get cutoff plenty there.  I do live a block from their so that is my most frequented intersection and I can't think of any better intersection so I give it a second.  It is miles better than trying to cross college street where the campus police don't even stop for pedestrians in the cross walk.

ironic1

about 11 years ago

You mean THIS intersection? :)

Claire

about 11 years ago

I think it has to do with the nice people who live near that intersection!! Seriously, it's a wonderful intersection -- esp compared to the horrible intersection at Skyline and 11th above Peace Church. I had someone jump her turn, then flip me off b/c I started going, as it was my turn.

I like the intersection at 9th St and 10th Ave E, people wait their turn at that one too.

Chris

about 11 years ago

I concur, good intersection.  I think it has to do primarily with the fact that VIP sits on that corner, and VIP makes people happy.  It makes this people happy, anyway.

GAry

about 11 years ago

Worst intersection is 1st Ave E and Michigan St.  Altough, there are about 8 free parking spaces on Michigan St.  The meters were never replaced after the Wieland Bldg was constructed.

doubledutch

about 11 years ago

it's pretty good, but i also really love 4th st & 10th ave east.  when traveling southwest on fourth street, approaching that intersection, that's where i saw my first sun-shower as a child looking out the car window at the park.

i don't mind the 5-way at skyline/kenwood/11th.  at least it's an all-way stop - when i first moved here, kenwood had no stop signs there.

the worst is trying to make a left turn onto woodland, off of college street.  for foot or bike traffic, i imagine the mall area is a nightmare.

Barrett Chase

about 11 years ago

I think I have to concur with Claire on this one, if it's the same intersection I'm thinking of. Kenwood/11th/Skyline is awful. As a runner-up, I'd nominate the Highland/Getchell/Vinland/Skyline intersection, which would be completely terrible except that it doesn't see all that much traffic.

wildgoose

about 11 years ago

Kenwood/11th, etc is the worst.  Worse than the old 5 corners are Piedmont was, although I drive it a lot so maybe I'm biased.

I'm gonna surprise you with my nomination for best.  Lake Ave and 4th St.  There are lots of pedestrians, though, and sometimes people forget that PEOPLE, including little children and parents with strollers have the right of way.  However, 9 times out of ten it is very smooth and courteous there. People don't sit around forever waiting, they just stop, wait and go.  So nothing against 19th, but I'm scoring mine for Central Hillside!

edgeways

about 11 years ago

Kenwood/11th/Skyline is bad, but as doubledutch says it use to be worse.

wildgoose

about 11 years ago

Agreed again, it was worse w/o the stop.  the really bad one was 4th and Woodland ave before the stop sign.

TimK

about 11 years ago

At any intersection, just give ME the right of way. It is so much easier than trying to remember the "car on the right has the right-of-way" thing. Just assume I get to go first. You've got plenty of time...

TopOfTheHillMan

about 11 years ago

Hawthorne & 4th St.  Beautiful exapmles of Duluth architecture and everyone cares for their homes/yards.  The "Spencer House" has a wonderful apple (crab apple?) tree that will be blooming soon, and the Althworth residence alwsy had wonderfull red geraniums out in the summer with a vividly colored flag always flying. Nice colorful contrast against the red brick.  Of couse there's East High-must be in the finest exapmle of architecture of a public HS inthe US.

Tony D.

about 11 years ago

TopofHill, I'd say East is a wonderfully designed school, but only the third finest high school--by architecture--in Duluth. The original Duluth Central is a marvelous example of romanesque revival and Denfeld was consciously designed to reflect academic traditions--or something like that. Hey Lundgren, please describe how Denfeld's "H" design is remarkable, would ya?

And yes, 11th/Skyline/Kenwood/Martha is the worst I've experienced in town, especially in the fall with new students at UMD and CSS learning to navigate Duluth. I once honked at a UMD student who ran the stop (not even slowing down, just straight through at 40 mph off Kenwood) while talking on her cel phone. She didn't even turn her head, just stuck her arm out the window and her finger in the air, almost an unconscious, automatic response.

Sun Dog

about 11 years ago

I must be lucky. I have always been impressed with how polite people are at 11th/Skyline/Kenwood.  I always worry about it, but have never had any trouble.

chadp

about 11 years ago

Here is an interesting article I read a few years ago about cities in Europe forgoing all traffic rules in favor of anarchy.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html


Seems ideal.

Codie

about 11 years ago

I'd say the worst intersections are either: 

Kenwood and Arrowhead
Central Entrance and Arlington
or where Mesaba Ave meets Superior and Michigan St

TopOfTheHillMan

about 11 years ago

Tony D.  Would agree w/Duluth school arechitecure.  Not any side of town issue being expressed, just a nice intersection with all the elements in place. (and no East students walking in the street and driving recklessly-but alas that problem will be taken care of soon.)

Sam

about 11 years ago

4th st & 10th ave east is good, as well as 18th Ave east and 8th St.  People seen really nice there.

My experience with Kenwood/Skyline/11th above Peace Church has been awful.  People regularly go out of turn there, and I've seen a lot of dangerous situations where two people go at the same time.  I think it might be too busy and complicated an intersection to exist safely without a light.  Maybe they should redirect some of the roads to make the stop there more simple (I'd rather not add a light).

Zacaroo

about 11 years ago

If this were an ebay review:

A+++++ Highly recommended. Would do business with again!

Seriously though - great little 4-way we have. I always feel safe going to band practice.

adEm

about 11 years ago

4th/10th east, I've had more teenagers on phones cut me off and people doubling up there than anywhere. It's not as bad when it's 'rush hour.'

Just about any 4-way works better if it's busy, but with Kenwood/Skyline/Martha/Kenwood/Skyline plus a little 11th thrown in for flavor, the busier it is the worse it gets. But it's not all our fault. It's an ocean of pavement with people 75yds away trying to see if you are moving or not.

Not that there's any excuse for taking your turn immediately after the person in front of you.

Hmmmm

about 11 years ago

At least we don't have any intersections like this...

Nate

about 11 years ago

I HATE the intersection of kenwood and arrowhead (by Wells Fargo.) it's not so bad if you're at the intersection itself (there's a light), but heaven help you if you are in any parking lot on any corner anywhere near there.

11th/kenwood/skyline/Martha is awful. I live very near there and drive on there three or four times a day, and yes... People constantly go out of turn, and I've been honked at and flipped off several times for going when I was supposed to.

I also nominate 13th and Fern ave because I was hit by some asshole college kid that decided to pass a block of stopped traffic ON THE SHOULDER crossing an intersection, and not one person stayed as a witness, causing me to lose my car. Boo.

wetclimber

about 11 years ago

22nd E and 1st St. There's literally no traffic here. You don't have to stop. It's great.

MIke

about 11 years ago

15th Avenue East & Superior Street is consistently the worst I've seen. Aggressive parking techniques on two sides makes it dangerous for all comers.

Vehicles are routinely parked in front of Stewart's, almost all the way to the sidewalk on the SE side of 15th. Drivers coming up the hill have to sneak out almost to the centerline of Superior St. to see cars coming west.

On the other side of the street, harried pet owners park erratically trying to get their pets in and out of the poochie parlor. This creates the same problem for drivers coming down the hill and peering back towards the Plaza.

Yikes.

Terry G.

about 11 years ago

11th/Skyline/Kenwood would be great if re-configured as a "roundabout." As it is now, signaling your turn means nothing.

Claire

about 11 years ago

You said it, Terry G. . . it's not so bad when I'm going down the hill, for some reason, it's mostly *terrifying* going uphill -- I think b/c of there being no stop sign on Skyline to my right. I think a roundabout might make more sense.

Carolynn

about 11 years ago

The WORST is the new frontage road/Burning Tree Road intersection by Super One- it's a three-way stop and all the roads that converge there are 4 lanes. The only cars that aren't required to stop are coming off of highway 53 and still going quite fast. It is difficult and dangerous to get across, especially during busy times. I have already seen accidents there.  That used to be my route- first Target then the grocery store via the frontage road. Now I have to plan the shopping trip route more strategically to avoid that intersection. It's just too crazy and dangerous to risk.

huitz

about 11 years ago

@Tony D

I'm assuming you were being serious about the Denfeld question.  The "I" shape was originally planned to be a "D".  Something about resources or bad design kept it from happening.  Or so the story goes.  My father worked on renovations (not the new ones, but the groundbreaking for the gym), and that was the story among the crew.  I think I read it somewhere, too.

Ha.  The fun rumor/urban legend was that there Denfeld went 4 floors down and there was an unused pool and classrooms undertheath.  It just goes down 4 cases, which is two floors.

On-topic.  Worst intersection is probably 11th/Skyline/Kenwood and I agree with Terry G. that a roundabout might work (takes up a lot of room though).

Slightly off-topic again.  Worst road to cycle on is Central Entrance.

Tony D.

about 11 years ago

huitz:

I've never heard the "D" story, and was always told it was an "H" shape, not an "I".

This is from my "Zenith" book:

Denfeld Senior Hugh School
4405 W. 4th Street - 1926
Abraham Holstead & William J. Sullivan, Architects
Built in a style dubbed Collegiate English Gothic, Denfeld High School (home of the Hunters) reflects Renaissance ideals. The building is shaped like an H with a rising clock tower that stands for "aspiring idealism." The building's eight buttresses were intended to represent "the eight types of human beings who supported the human kingdom: masters, rulers, philanthropists, philosophers, magicians, scientists, devotees, and artists." Stone carvings of Renaissance symbolism adorn the school. The building is still in use as a high school today; it takes its name from Robert E. Denfeld, Duluth's superintendent of schools for over thirty years beginning in 1885.

Barrett Chase

about 11 years ago

I guess you could call it either a wide H or an I. It looks more like an I to me. (The large rectangle on the lower left is the gym that Huitz referred to.)

Looking at it from above, it's hard to believe that it was ever intended to be a D. That sounds like urban legend to me, like the 4 underground levels. 

Paul Lundgren

about 11 years ago

The D story is indeed a myth. I've heard there is medieval symbolism in the H shape (although it does look more like an I). I can't speak to that at all. I can say the H wasn't chosen because of the Denfeld Hunters. Walt Hunting didn't arrive at Denfeld until after the building was constructed, and the nickname Hunters wasn't adopted until the mid-1930s.

What is significant about the layout of the building is that it was intentionally designed so all of the classrooms would have sunlight coming through the windows. The H shape allows that.

huitz

about 11 years ago

I've been told by people "not in the know" that the gothic D would have its arc with its center pointing to the lower left in Barrett's pic (i.e. at the point of the spaceship, lol).  I also seem to remember a courtyard was planned in the middle.  I have no resources at the moment to back this up, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Ah.well.  I'm off topic enough to be embarrassed.

I can't find any info quickly on what the original design was, but I'm leaning towards the "D" shaped theory that failed.  Lighting was a good concept for the "I/H" shape, but so was the "D".

zra

about 11 years ago

Denfeld has a spaceship?!? Lucky!

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