Wind Turbine Manufacturing

frank nichols Oct 09, 2009 21 Comments

Finally with the announcement of two wind turbine manufacturing plants, one in Duluth and one in Two harbors, I can get off that rant. How long did that take, ten years? I hope they work. Now if we could have a pilot program to test stormwater retention through the use of boulevard raingardens, (which have had suceess rates of up to 90% retention in places like Seattle and Burnsville) I could get off that one. But I’ve only been talking about that one for 15 or 20 years. I have another one in my head that would have major economic impact on Northern MN but it is so simple that it would be too complicated for the no republicans and the help everybody else out except the working people democrats, so I’ll leave that alone.

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21 Comments

Resolutionary

about 16 years ago 

I have this reoccurring dream in which Duluth confronts her stormwater issues and builds a massive system of boulevard raingardens and encourages thousands of residential rain gardens.

With the garden effort, in conjunction with the $100 million of infrastructure improvements we have spent or are already planning to spend, we would have the fine distinction of not dumping millions of gallons of untreated human sewage into Lake Superior every time it rains hard.  Perhaps the old adage, 'dilution is the solution to pollution' can finally give way to the realty that '99 gallons of the finest wine mixed with 1 gallon of sewage amounts to 100 gallons of sewage.'

My reoccurring dream goes on:  Duluth, the most stunning city in the world with its incredible urban gardens worked into the natural wonders of the city, builds a whole new industry helping cities on the great lakes and across the world to adopt our practices and try to mimic our unparalleled success.  

I dream of overcoming the  potently politically powerful 'pro poop in the lake' constituency one day.

frank nichols

about 16 years ago 

Been having that dream for so long since Blaize turned me onto it so long ago. Unbelievable what we could have done to the mouth of Miller Creek with constructed wetlands, the big dream. 
     If you take a square bounded by Lake Ave. to 21st Ave East by Superior St to 10th St N. you have 210 intersections. If you put four boulevard raingardens at each intersection at a cost of 2500 per garden, it would cost 2 million one hundred thousand dollars. You tell readers what that would look like Resolutionary.

Todd Gremmels

about 16 years ago 

Power Companys in this area have for years stated in the past that wind emergy is not viable.

My question is why does the range have them and is now using them?

My next question is why not by the lake or on the lake?

I live by the lake and there are very few days that the wind does not blow.

Peace

PS I love and respect you Frank my friend

Jim

about 16 years ago 

I'm with Gremmels

edgeways

about 16 years ago 

forgetting where I saw it, but there is a nifty map floating out there, all to do with power companies, usage, distribution and peak potential areas in the US for different "alternative" energy sources. N. MN is decent for wind energy, but actually a few miles out in the lake is freaking optimal. I know they have wind farms off the coasts, I would think that fresh water would be an even better place for turbines (no salt).

wind turbine

about 16 years ago 

It is not a good time and opportunity to build a larege wind turbine factory. There are many competitors in the market like the VESTAS and GE or Simens.

frank nichols

about 16 years ago 

Good to hear from you Todd, sorry we haven't hooked up lately. Miss your fire. As far as wind off shore, that's been done in many places already.They even figured out how to float them.  As far as manufacturing plants. Who do you think is going to make the 5000 turbines going into the Dakota's starting this summer. When the Democrats get done bailing out the banks and insurance companies maybe there will be jobs for the working people.Maybe somtime our kids won't have to go die for oil. As far as wind electricity here not enough steady winds above 7mph but the new technology might change that. I think solar might be more our answer. Curious though about the millions of dollars we are spending to cap off Rice Lake dump so we can burn off the methane. Probably good place for some turbines and solar under them along with the methane.wind always blowing there, might have trouble with footing though. My apologies to PDD for bringing up stuff like this, I try to keep it to a minimum.Found a great site for jobs in the wind industry check it out on my facebook profile. This is not about me. I already have my pension and SS, I'm on my way out. I'd like to see jobs for you young bucks and does in something that would make you feel good

huitz

about 16 years ago 

I suspect that floating wind turbines on Lake Sup's shores would be a veritable nightmare.  The short wavelength and chop-chop would make it near impossible to float anything of size with stability, unless it was monstrous.  I suppose, in theory, you could have gyroscopic compensation coupled with a cv joint between blades and drivetrain, but would require severe electronic system control (read expensive), I don't see anything like that soon on Superior.  It would be a very difficult inverted pendulum problem since the motions of the lakeshore water tend to be violent/chaotic.  Just ask the Edmund ;)

frank nichols

about 16 years ago 

I think we should do solar.There putting these turbines in the Nourth Sea. I could see putting a combination methane solar wind at Rice Lake dump. On second thought that might be a lethal combination. I'm sure if we thought about it we could figure something out.

frank nichols

about 16 years ago 

Strange thing about the rain garden thing, if you didn;t have water in the pipes there would be less maintinance. Oh and then there;s the photosynisis thing. Always about things.

wildgoose

about 16 years ago 

'99 gallons of the finest wine mixed with 1 gallon of sewage amounts to 100 gallons of sewage.'

Never heard that before, and I love it.  From where I sit, there's no need to apologize for posting stuff in your purview on PDD, Frank.  Isn't that the point, or some of it, anyway?

Jeff

about 16 years ago 

Ok, call me critical, but it seems like you're all stacking up your soapboxes so fast they might be taller than the turbines.  So you've been ranting abouit this for 10 years?  Big deal.  There are people who have been WORKING to make this happen for that long.  Who cares who talked about it first on some blog?  And I don't think many of you realize all of the work it takes to get one of these projects to even consider our region.  As for the guy who said now is not a good time to build one of a tubine manufacturing facility, I'm afraid you're wrong.  If Vestas and GE could supply the world with enough turbines to meet the current demand, they would do so.  They can't keep up and already outsource much of their work to these smaller facility's who's names you don't recognize.  Besides, it sounds like the facility in Two Harbors makes smaller turbines for a market segment not currently targeted by GE and Vestas anyway.  Also, the Power Companies around here are very supportive of wind energy.  Who do you think built Tac Ridge?  Same company that is building even bigger wind farms in the Dakotas right now: Minnesota Power.  They're also the same company that pays for much of the region's economic development efforts aimed at attracting these manufacturing opportunities.  Maybe the failure to make these connections will explain why we're all going to be quick to complain about the next rate increase.  Same thing with water gardens.  We all want them, but our City can't even afford to maintain the parks we have.  Unless one of you is prepared to make a huge philanthropic donation to make this happen, there is nothing realistic about it.  Oh, and wind turbines out on Lake Superior is a GREAT idea.  Too bad no one in this region would ever EVER allow it to happen.  We all want green energy, but we don't want to give up our view of Lake Superior to get it.  We also don't want powerlines in our yards, dams on our rivers, coal smoke in our air, nuclear waste on our shores, or stumps in our forests from wood harvested for bioenergy.  There are too many conflicting priorities out there to make most of this possible, but you all seem to ignore those challenges in offering such simple, decisive statements.  I love this blog, but if it's just a love-in where we fail to critique our own misconceptions, then it's weaker than I thought.

Resolutionary

about 16 years ago 

Wow, Jeff, you mean any power source has blowback and opportunity costs that make things complicated?  

Despite the fact the windmills are expensive, can be noisy, mar a view, kill birds, and can require additional high voltage lines, some of us have decided that they are a key component to our energy future.  I could understand if someone decided this a dozen years ago, they may be frustrated with the glacial pace of wind energy development.  We've watched as the Dutch, Chinese, and damned Maldivians have developed technology and transformed their energy production while our industry has spent their efforts lobbying decision makers to convince them wind energy isn't feasible.  Our stomachs turned as we watched our VP push through an energy bill written with the aim to entrench oil and coal interests deep into the 21st century.  We've grown frustrated with those that strive to keep certain costs of energy externalized.  We know that in a free market, one that isn't rigged, wind power would be a bargain.  If coals price included the health costs it imposes by its role soiling the air, poisoning the water, and blowing up mountains, wind would win.

So a celebration rant to the tune of, "finally, these are the jobs we want," may be in order. Some prodding from the sidelines may be warranted, some admonishment for not putting any windmills here may be deserved.  

But, I regress. I suppose this is the proper forum to say, "Look at the pretty lake," but to point out how we should stop pooping in it is too political.

huitz

about 16 years ago 

@Jeff...

Um, wha?

I didn't say turbines on Sup would be a bad idea.  I said it would be expensive.  You're suggesting it's a good idea because it has become popular recently?

BTW, if we could build enough wind generators to meet the current demand, we would severely alter a number of ecosystems.

See it how you want, but there is no free lunch.

Tim K

about 16 years ago 

Actually, I left my business card in a fish bowl at Quizno's once and I DID get a free lunch.

huitz

about 16 years ago 

Tim pontificated...

I DID get a free lunch.

Hah, whimsical, gotta love it.  Your lunch will move mountains.

huitz

about 16 years ago 

Hmm, that last sounded a bit harsh.  I forgot the smiley face.  You know, I do think those emoticons are terribly cheesy ;->.

Todd Gremmels

about 16 years ago 

First I said in the past power companys have been against it (we are twenty years behind the times) and secound I am for home generators more so than large farms hundreds of miles away. Transmission lines loose scades of power - I think out in the lake (maybe out on the peer at the McQuade road) or out in the lake in front of my house. One generator for $15,000 installed can produce one killowatt of power in a month with an average of five miles and hour of wind. That is enuff to run a dairy farm or several houses. As far as the manufacturing not keeping up with demand that is bunk. Ther is no eco impact on a properly placed wind turbine. I stood next to a big one in South Dakota and it wasnt any worse than the freeway noise I hear up at my house.

Peace

PS The key is installers and Frank Nichols is the man -Also type on Frank

Todd Gremmels

about 16 years ago 

Thanks for helping my six Jim.

You have always been there baby!!!

Todd Gremmels

about 16 years ago 

I am with resolutionary!!! The power and coal industry has sat on their  butts on a for-profit lobbyist couch for to long.

Frank C

about 15 years ago 

There is always an ecological cost when humans do what they do. There is however degrees of cost. I believe that the cost of placing wind turbines on the lake or wherever they would prove most useful would be far less in the long run that continuing on the road that we are currently on. I can see the lake when I wake up every day. I would love to see large turbines in the water knowing that they are providing for our energy and security needs.

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