People Get Ready

Racist organizations plan on visiting Duluth on March 3. Let’s not give them a Minnesota Nice welcome. See you there!

Link to racist Stromfront site

27 Comments

Dulusion

about 10 years ago

I would be surprised if anyone actually FROM Duluth would be dumb enough to stand with them, but you never know. They have a right to be there IF they actually have a permit, question is..do they? Personally, I plan to ignore them.

hbh1

about 10 years ago

Doesn't sound like much of an organization, and having witnessed (and protested against) Klan rallies in the past, ignoring them is better for all concerned. They want attention. Give them none. 

Also, please warn people you're linking to Stormfront. I really don't like giving them site-hits on accident.

Dreadmullet

about 10 years ago

You start an anti-racism campaign...And... here comes the KKK! 

I've started a petition here in support of the Un-Fair Campaign. Let's let our bedsheet wearing friends that we stand behind the campaign, and against their racist message. Sign the petition here!

http://www.change.org/petitions/un-fair-campaignorg-keep-the-un-fair-campaign-going

livingminimal

about 10 years ago

guys, PLEASE BE AWARE, the link goes to Storm Watch, a well-known White Power website, if you are at work it may not be a good idea to click the link. Thanks.

livingminimal

about 10 years ago

err StormFront. You can hover over the link to see, but unfortunately I clicked through on my Google Reader.

c-freak

about 10 years ago

glitterbombing coming........

BadCat!

about 10 years ago

As much as I'd like to go running through their protest with a crowbar, I think it would be best to respond with nothing. Remember when the Phellps family came up to protest our gay city planner? No one showed. We cared so little for their opinion, that we didn't even bother going out of our way to let them know.
Also, a brilliant alternative: http://www.neatorama.com/2007/09/03/clowns-kicked-kkk-asses/

Stephenos LaFleur

about 10 years ago

BadCat, you've got the right idea. I enjoy entertaining the idea of throwing a beat-down on these mongrels, but that would simply be stooping to their level, which is a place I don't ever care to go.

The best way to disengage them is to simply...disengage them. Don't offer the time of day to them.

The clown thing would be awesome, though! I'd pay $ to see that, frankly.

edgeways

about 10 years ago

I find it somewhat weird (and funny) that people who are the very definition of virulent racist don't want to be called racist.

sarafenix

about 10 years ago

According to a source that checked this out, there has been no permit request, etc. Could just be a hoax or who knows. Being 65 the idea of this makes my blood boil.When I told the hubby I would take the day off if they came to town,his response: Stay out of Jail!

adam

about 10 years ago

Disengagement works amazing. Local bands have been practicing it for years: no posters or handbills for gigs, no Facebutt events page posts, no word of mouth, no emails. No one shows up. Success!

Makoons

about 10 years ago

I'm not gonna pick a side. I don't believe white people should self-flagellate for being white and I don't believe anyone should be openly, flagrantly, and aggressively racist.

I'll take the "Racism is bad, mmkay?" middle ground.

hbh1

about 10 years ago

In light of the fact that you (Makoons) were the one who pointed out the Rolling Stone article which made clear that a "neutral" policy on LGBTQ in a Minnesota school district led to discrimination and ultimately kids' suicides, I think your statement is pretty ironic. 

I mean, "not gonna pick a side"? Between Stormfront and anti-racism? Kind of a no-brainer if you ask me. 

(Yes, I see that you say that racism is "bad." It's the equivocation that makes me raise one eyebrow.)

vicarious

about 10 years ago

For Adam: *amazingly*

RE: Makoons:  quietly racist is better than openly racist? There's a "middle ground"  about racism? Interesting viewpoint.

Makoons

about 10 years ago

Okay, obviously I should've figured text isn't the best way to express sarcasm. However, I find your responses kind of prove my point...people seem to think there are only two options to choose from here: either agree with the concept of white guilt or ally with the flaming racists. The OP said as much when they encouraged people to sign a petition agreeing with the campaign to show they don't agree with Stormfront. I also love how wanting to have a middle ground makes me okay with "quiet racism" instead of maybe being okay with finding a different way to communicate about it than pointing fingers or making it someone else's responsibility.

The ironic thing to me is that you're making these accusations and I'm not white...I've been on the receiving end of both quiet and loud varieties of racism and don't find it pleasant or acceptable. But I'm not okay with blaming another race for the continuation of racism, I find it stupid because it is also racist. Some of the most racist things that have been said to me have been said by other minorities. 

I'm not arguing for neutrality, I just don't believe understanding comes from white guilt. Only guilt and resentment. Besides, as a Native American I don't blame white people for the atrocities against my people...I blame the GOVERNMENT. Our genocide wasn't fueled by racism, it was greed and power. Those are things all races and cultures deal with. The government is historically run by white people, sure, but that doesn't mean it's a white problem. People of the same color do it to each other all over the world.

To me, "middle ground" means a place of open discussion where understanding can be had...not the pointing of fingers or overlooking certain types of racism. And maybe the UnFair campaign is ATTEMPTING to create these discussions, I just don't feel they're going about it in a way that isn't going to make people resentful and defensive.

hbh1

about 10 years ago

Can you please point to me where the UnFair Campaign advocates for "white guilt"? 

I do believe that's called a "straw man" fallacy.

schmem

about 10 years ago

From the viewpoint of the white supremacist protestors, the worst possible outcome of their rally would be if everyone in Duluth ignored them. A counter protest creates a spectacle and generates media attention. Take the sail out of their wind and ignore them. On a related note, check out this article on a UK study of over 15,000 people showing that lower intelligence in childhood predicts greater prejudice in adults. Hmmm... http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract

Jadiaz

about 10 years ago

@Hbh1: it's great you don't get that message from this campaign, bit the majority of people do get the message this campaign is trying to make them feel guilty. It doesn't matter if you don't feel that way, what matters is that the majority of us do. By telling all of us our feelings are wrong, you shut down any chance of reaching anyone with your points. 
That is the issue with this campaign, it has given the wrong impression to to many people and with all the people saying they are ignorant, dumb, or white supremacists (and yes there are actual white supremacists and they are never ok) you totally alienate rather than educate them all. 
That is what the bulk of PDD supporters don't get. It doesn't matter what you think or feel, but what the other people think and feel and by constantly telling them they are wrong ect. or calling anyone with a different viewpoints trolls, you fail to change anyones opinion and help reinforce what they already think.

in.dog.neato

about 10 years ago

You can't reason a man out of a position he hasn't reasoned himself into.

hbh1

about 10 years ago

I'd like to see the poll that says that "the majority" agrees with you Jadiaz.

hbh1

about 10 years ago

P.S. What I think and feel matters as much as anyone else's thoughts and feelings. 

Also, please be scientific, should you take on the task of polling the community on whether or not this imaginary goal of the UnFair Campaign is the resulting message.  

Also, I never called anyone a troll. Not even once.

Makoons

about 10 years ago

I have to agree with Jadiaz. Even if it isn't the "majority" of white people who feel offended, it is enough that we're arguing over the effectiveness of the *campaign* and not the subject of the campaign itself. I'd say it's a failed attempt to accomplish their goal. To my mind, it makes those divisive lines stronger.

edgeways

about 10 years ago

Well.. the campaign has got more people talking about the issue than any other campaign I've ever seen. It is not all hearts and flowers and anything that potentially is going to address this issues is going o bruise some feelings. 

Gotta admit though I've been a bit puzzled as to why people feel this is a a "white guilt" campaign? When the closest it seems to come is saying that "if you are white it is hard to see racism" Is it just semantics? Should it just be "hard--er to see racism? Or is the argument that all people of all skin colors experience racism equally? If it is the first I can give a begrudging ok but... semantics?... If the argument is that all people experience and see racism on an equal basis I really don't have much sympathy for the argument. 

I've no doubt that we all can identify a blatant act of racism. I've no doubt that you do not have to be black to experience racism. I also have no doubt that a country such as ours which has seen redistricting specifically designed to minimize political power of minorities, where less than a hundred years ago about 15% of all white men openly belonged to the KKK, where segregation was the norm within many of our lifetimes, where there have been a grand total of 6 black and 7 Latino, 5 Asian and 3 Native American senators in the history of the country, when David Duke was a legitimate political force not that long ago. A country with all of that is not a 'color blind' country. All of that and there is an argument that whites experience racism on an equal basis? 
 
Racism is not just yelling n***er on the street, or the habit of police to profile one ethnicity over another, or the disproportionate conviction of use of crack cocaine over regular cocaine, or the members of one street gang targeting the skin color of other people. Yes,those are ALL racist activities and not all of them are regulated to white-only activities.
However institutionalized political and economic advantages that can be tracked by simply looking to see who holds the most political and economic power over time is not that hard, or frankly that controversial. 

It is not about white guilt, I am white and I don't personally feel all that guilty for the actions of others, but I also am not threatened when people point out that as difficult a life as I have had (trust me) I still have the wind at my back in regards to the color of my skin. I don't feel guilty, but I do wish we, as a society, did much more to ensure equal systemic political and economic opportunities to ALL our citizens, no matter the skin tone, disability status, gender, sexual identity or economic starting point. 
I think we are getting better, on a personal level, with most of these things (with the possible exception of the increasing economic gaps occurring), but I also think it is silly to pretend that we are all the same, and our skin color (or whatever) doesn't matter that we can see and feel racism exactly the same no matter the amount of melanin in our skin.

I'm sorry Makoons, I'm sorry Jadiaz that your feelings have been hurt, that you feel attacked by the Un-Fair campaign I really don't think this is about "white guilt" or about YOU being racist (although I tend to think that most everyone, yes myself too, IS racist to some small degree, but that is a derail). I honestly am sure you are worthy people. 

When you have a very strong reaction against something it is worth looking at it honestly, because sometimes... just sometimes it is a reflection of something you don't like about yourself. That is not a judgement, just an observation that has been personally applied from time to time.

peace, be well

TimK

about 10 years ago

So let me get this straight- we should ignore a Stormfront (obviously racist) rally, but we should pay attention to the UnFair campaign because the "majority" got their feelings hurt?

Makoons

about 10 years ago

Oh edgeways I'm not trying to attack the validity of the argument of white privilege. I think white people experience unknown privilege the same way I experience non-disabled privileges. I don't think about how having full-ability makes my life easier than someone in a wheelchair, and I should. Everyone should be considerate of others and disparities should be addressed. But it doesn't do any good, in my opinion, to point at me and say "well it's easy to not see it when you can WALK!" That statement is confrontational and in my ears very accusatory before ever even beginning a dialogue on the subject. It's like saying "Your ignorance is the problem, so let's address your ignorance." Maybe it's a part of the problem, but I'm not the type to be aggressively ignorant. If I can help, I'll try to do it...but not when I feel I'm walking into a hostile crowd. Nobody likes to be ganged up on and I feel appealing to the humanity of others is more successful than shocking them. I feel as though this campaign will make deniers more adamant and will just end up preaching to the choir.

emmadogs

about 10 years ago

I was in complete agreement with Jadiaz's and Makoon's comments, until I listed to Mayor Ness's MPR interview on this issue.  Near the end, he talks about the abrasive quality of this campaign, and how that can be effective.  I have felt that this Unfair campaign was abrasive, obnoxious, unnecessarily in-your-face, and utterly ineffective to elicit thoughtful responses.  Then I realized that this is how nonwhites might feel.  It must feel abrasive, utterly obnoxious, etc., to be followed around a store, have people cross the street, etc due to your race.

Then I realized that I would have initially felt fine with a "Hey, straight people" or a "Hey, non-disabled people" or even a "Hey, male people" campaign.  THat really wouldn't have struck me as unduly abrasive.

So take that for what you think it's worth.

lojasmo

about 10 years ago

I would also like to see the science on jadiaz's claim.  How about a single published peer reviewed study that shows a plurality (not even a majority) of whites are troubled by "white guilt."

I will wait, but not hold my breath.

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