Straw Poll: Who Shocked the World More?

I woke up today with an otherworldly, twilight zone-like feeling similar to the one I had in November of 1998, like where I had to check multiple news sources to see if I was understanding the election results correctly and then check back again to make sure. Shocked I tell you. Shocked.

My question to the PDD brain trust: What was more shocking Jesse’s win or Chip’s? And you can do a “where were you” personal memory or two if you want for color and flavor.

Love, Wild Goose

25 Comments

heysme

about 11 years ago

I agree with Wildgoose that waking up this morning was unsettling, but I will say I was quite shocked at the Jesse win and really shocked at the George W. win in 2000. 

I thought the Oberstar speech at the 10 o'clock hour last night was heartfelt and tinged with an "I've got this" tone so I feel he is the most shocked of anyone. 

Overall, I'm ready to move forward and support anyone who can control spending and reduce government.

Sam

about 11 years ago

The U.S. Government is tiny compared to those of successful European countries.  Our taxes and government in the U.S. are already very small.  A person making 40k gets 22% tax here and double that (40%) in Sweden.  And Sweden is a great place to live, and has a strong economy with much better (universal) health care.

If you want lower taxes, you can find those in undeveloped, 3rd World countries.  But you might be living in one of those countries soon, if the tea party gets its way.

Sam

about 11 years ago

More shocked by Ventura.

More depressed by tea party.

B-man

about 11 years ago

Ventura was a bigger shock. I think people are changing for the sake of change with this election. (Term limits could help this)  

I hope Cravaack listens to both sides of his constituency in the next four years, otherwise we all lose.

jim

about 11 years ago

Ventura didn't shock me at all. Mr. Cravaack didn't either, considering how close it was. It did shock me, however, how lightly Mr. Oberstar's campaign took him. Very poor ads, went on the attack versus championing his own merits, etc. As I said on another post, his campaign manager should have been either thanked or crucified, depending on what side of the fence you are on. And B-Man, nobody would agree with your hope more than me. Especially four years. I truly believe that Mr. Cravaack will hold everyones interest in his efforts and sway some naysayers. Some, meaning those with an open mind.

Claire

about 11 years ago

I was surprised that Ventura won -- but not depressed, it was actually thrilling, b/c he was such an anti-politician. But he ran a kickass campaign and was much more upfront about who he was and what he was about than the other candidates. And he was charming in a WWF kind of way.

Re our new Congressman. I'm more depressed than surprised. There are some angry people out there, and he tapped into all that anger, spouting shallow platitudes and Tea Party rhetoric. 

These are difficult times for all of us, and I don't feel safe with someone so inexperienced representing us in Congress. And I hope he's more respectful of his colleagues in Congress than he was at the Oct. 19 debate.

jim

about 11 years ago

Claire, I was there. Were you? He was extremely respectful. Much more than Mr. Oberstar. He left it to the moderators, who lost control. Mr. Cravaack never got up and criticized the audience with a wagging finger. I felt like my Grandfather admonishing me for having my hat on at the dinner table. 

I have met Mr. Cravaack. He is an extremely intelligent, thoughtful and respectful individual, much like you saw on his campaign commercials. He will represent you and I well, and you are lucky to have him. Give him a chance. Mr. Oberstar lost because many of us are angry with people who have made a career out of the taxpayers. Mr. Oberstar was the embodiment of that anger. Sorry to disagree, but half a century of being a Washington insider is waaaaay too much.

Claire

about 11 years ago

Jim, I was there -- and witnessed CC egging on his supporters, and interrupting Oberstar when he was speaking. I wasn't impressed.

jim

about 11 years ago

Maybe I did see you there. I was the guy with the flannel shirt and the Farmall hat.

year of glad

about 11 years ago

Shocked? Not really, but I was so hopeful.

I'm definitely a little sad and angry that we're being represented by a tea bagger, much less a regular conservative politician.

My cherry on top was hearing my Lutheran, ultra-conservative history prof say, "Looks like the people have spoken."

Really? Ugh. Why are they called representatives if they only actually represent 48.1% of just the people that made it out to the polls?

Hot Shot

about 11 years ago

Great. Since comments were frozen in the other thread, let's continue the mud slinging here. 

To the Cravaack supporters: we know he won. Let's show some class and embody a part of the state he wouldn't be embarrassed to represent. Time to stop singing "We Are the Champions" and do some positive supporting. 

Yelling, "In your face, losers!" is expected from little leaguers, not adults who elected an official to office. 

Also, what is wrong with a Duluth-Twin Cities train system? That'd bring a lot of folks north to visit, especially during our months of treacherous weather.

Ben

about 11 years ago

Hot shot,

Congressman Oberstar has represented Northern MN very well and I'm not certainly a gloater.  However, I've seen certain liberal posters who do gloat, have gloated, and will gloat.  If you're going to condemn this behavior, which I certainly agree with you, then the "cease and desist" should happen on all sides.  After all, it takes a lot of hard work and sleepless nights to run for public office.  The last thing someone on the short end of the stick needs (on either side) is crucifixion, post election.

The Friendly Old Knifey

about 11 years ago

Also, I want to applaud Jim for seemingly trying to build bridges when, less than a week ago, he was declared a troll. There may have been some gloating at first, but now it just seems like most of the nay-saying is coming from those that are "depressed" that their candidate lost.

I am just another person that believes that the voting system is in shambles anyway. We shouldn't take it too personally if our candidate wins or doesn't win. No matter what, a significant portion of the community would be upset with the result of these elections, even those who didn't vote (and, in my humble opinion, still have the right to still be upset).

jim

about 11 years ago

Thanks Knifey. I do want to turn the old leaf over. I feel that a good portion of my rants have been a response to caustic comments that needed to be, ahem, responded to. I'll do my best, but don't be surprised if I lose my cool now and then. I will promise to really try, however, not to incite -- just respond, no matter how much fun it is to get Zra or Baci going.

Tom

about 11 years ago

I got off the plane in MSP after living in Africa for two years.  The next evening, my cousin was playing in Johnny Lang's band which had the gig celebrating Jessie's win at the Target Center.  I think that remains the most surreal experience of my life.

Bret

about 11 years ago

I'm not sure if Wall Street and its global equivalents are shocked, but they sure are celebrating today.  Their "investments" sure have paid off.  They, and their bought and owned party, did have a good day on Tuesday.

Bret

about 11 years ago

For those that believe it's fiscally responsible to only buy what you can pay for at that very moment, do you rent or were you able to pay cash for your house?  

To me, home ownership, even with a mortgage, is fiscally responsible.  If you agree, and also agree with Cravaack, there's a disconnect in your thinking on which you need to reflect.

Also, for those who also supported the war on Iraq, I'll only think you have integrity once you open your checkbook and pay for it in full instead of making the rest of us and the next generation pay for it.

Gary

about 11 years ago

I was stunned when Ventura was elected - was in the library studying in college and heard the news.  It was scary because the person who had just been elected was opposed to spending money on public higher education.  Fortunately he didn't "gut the system" but nonetheless it was an eye-opener.  Time will tell if Cravaack proposes anything that scary...

German Chris

about 11 years ago

Thanks for the ringing endorsement for Cravaack Jim. Unfortunately, based on the knee-deep comments you have made in the past, this does not make me warm-n-fuzzy inside. 

Most issues you have brought up here on this forum are important and dear to me as well. However, on most issues you follow the jinglistic responses put forward by the tea partiers (for example blame illegals and welfare recipients for economy and deficit respectively). These make great sound bites, but are non-factors when actually doing due diligence and examining the issues. The growing deficit for example is very complex and requires fixing of its root causes. 

What worries me the most is that some of these candidates (similar to the class of 94) may not have the attention to detail that is required to make sound legislature on these issues. Additionally, candidates elected through a populist backlash election generally have shown a resistance to voting against public opinion. They most likely will take the easy route of politicking on sound bites. Hopefully, they will prove me wrong. 

The only assurance I will make is that the root cause to the current deficit will be there in the next election cycle. We spend over half of our discretionary spending (the spending that either party is willing or can change) on the military. This equals 40% of all military expenditures worldwide. Good luck attempting to improve the infrastructure and getting our country to compete in a global economy with that monkey on your back. 

Receipts and expenditures estimates

wildgoose

about 11 years ago

Hey ditto on the nice comments about (somewhat) friendly discourse here and the nice memories.  

Speaking of memories, I spent an hour yesterday with my 85 year old great uncle who told me about "Jimmy" from before he was Congressman Jim Oberstar.  I won't bore you with the details of the conversation but he has the perspective of a man who nearly died twice in the South Pacific and came back to build up this country in whatever way he could for the next 60-odd years on and on to today. He was on a first name basis with "Jimmy" John Blatnik and Hubert Humphrey as were many working people of his generation. The defeat of "Jimmy" yesterday marks the end of an era, the victory of Ventura marked an interesting experiment that has by and large passed.  The main thing that lingered was the novelty of "rebate checks" which the federal government copied from Ventura a year or so later.  That, coupled with tax cuts and massive, unprecedented government spending (mainly on the military) is an effect we still feel today ... and will for generations.  

Still not sure which was a bigger shock, though.

TimK

about 11 years ago

The "nice-ness" of the discourse is an illusion. Certain inflammatory comments (including my own -- I can't help it, I'm a sucker for snark) have been deleted.

Jim

about 11 years ago

German, economists are like attorneys. You can twist and pull numbers in many different directions, giving you data that will support just about any cause. When I have some time, I will throw some data to you on illegal immigrants and the real cost behind them. It is staggering.

yearofglad

about 11 years ago

I don't see how illegal immigrants are costing us much. I really do wish people would choose to take the legal route, but I wouldn't say illegals are the cause of economic woes. They mainly work the jobs most Americans won't settle for. They pay income taxes, but they don't get a return, and they rarely apply government assistance for fear of being deported.

Like other first world countries, America's fertility rate is dropping. Our rate of natural increase would actually be negative if it weren't for immigrants (illegal and otherwise), and in 20 years and beyond, we'd be left with a smaller workforce working harder than ever to care for a rapidly aging population.

Maybe they're not as bad as you think, Jim.

wildgoose

about 11 years ago

All due respect Year of Glad and Jim, could we save the immigration quagmire for another thread please?

jim

about 11 years ago

Si, Ganso.

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