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they're bitching about pdd here.
i guess free speech only counts for some...


I propose that PDD REQUIRE, yes, REQUIRE the F-word to be used in every post.

We are "...uncultured, insensitive, hate mongering, and, yes, uncivil."

fuckin a!


If you want to see how civil they are at DCB check out this blast from their past: http://dulcitizens.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html

Scroll down to "Citizen’s Blog Dives into Gutter" and you will see just how hateful these clowns can be. Remember this was a comment that was “moderated.” They took it down after about 24 hours, but you can still see what remains by checking out their archived blog page number 47.

You should be proud to be on their sh*t list.


I generally don't tangle with DCB, there are plenty of other things clamoring for my attention to pay attention to that unfocused static, but just glancing at the site I'm a bit puzzled, why are there quote marks around "Exercising Free Speech", and "What's On YOUR Mind!"? Correct me if I'm wrong but a common usage for quote marks when not describing actual speech is to denote condescension/negation, which would seem to be opposite of what the message is suppose to be.

Whatever, I'm one of those who had the temerity of using "the F-word" in the Falwell post, and I am unrepentant.

Fuck Jerry Falwell. I pride myself on standing diametrically opposed to just about every goddamn thing hateful he stood for, I would not mourn the passing of Hitler, I did not mourn the passing of Hussein, and I will not mourn for the passing of Falwell. If his words had been put into action he would stand alongside the other two in heinousness. The best we can say is he lived in America where his impulses where not official policy.

what do you expect from a message board whose population (of about 30 or so) is so beyond trust with their own self-righteous hate that they have to employ babysitters to ensure that they aren't threatened with a libel and slander suit and shut down.


yup. they've been in trouble before, and the moderators are a result of their not being able to control themselves.

since I know they're reading this, I'll say it again:


edge brings up a pretty interesting point, though...isn't "Excercising Free Speech" on a board that employs the use of moderators (Babysitters) to control the content of what appears on said board a contradiction in terms?

Oh, sweet, this isn't television: shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, tits.

I'd rather be a pottymouth than a bigot.

I'm a fucking lazy pottymouth; where are the comments against PDD? I've been browsing through their unorganized posts and can't find it.

Let's fight 'em....blogs at 30 paces.

Is it really worth it to fight them? The babysitters only publish what they want and probably write 70% of the stuff themselves.

Also, if you MUST on that blog, please don't use quotes....the lame ass site doesn't allow them....claims they allow the site "to be hacked" (wow, quotes!)

Is it really worth it to fight them? The babysitters only publish what they want and probably write 70% of the stuff themselves.

Also, if you MUST write on that blog, please don't use quotes....the lame ass site doesn't allow them....claims they allow the site "to be hacked" (wow, quotes!)

There are babysitters on this site too. Not that I care about the other site bashing this one or vice versa, but this site has stuff removed too.

Also, what is this fight about? I hate when people's only argument is to attack. Who started all this?

And why don't people ever discuss local issue on here? Like the failed DECC expansion, or Beacon Point being changed to rentals? Or that our city council was probably paid off by Beacon Point to not have the trail go in front..

There are 10 million posts about geek proms, game nights, and bands that died years ago. How about some substance.

i warned ya'll they ^ would come....

"Substance" is boring, especially the type of "substance" on Duluth Citizens Blog. Arguing is boring, too.

Okay, I'll argue a little: Do you truly believe Beacon Point "paid off" members of the city council with cash or other valuables? Are you able to back up these potentially libelous claims?

actually, we don't have babysitters. we don't need them, unlike your comrades over on the DCB. we pretty much say and talk about anything that comes to mind. we simply have the rationality and self control to not cast ourselves into the depths of slander and character assassination.

the reason, sir, that we don't go into a lot of local political bullshit on this site is ironically for the very same reason you mentioned...that there are 10 million posts about beacon point or the city council...

according to your ilk, everyone should be talking about those local issues, and nothing more. that's what keeps you caught in the rut you seem to be stuck in.

if you have read this blog for any length of time, you'll notice that we're a bunch of free thinking artists, barstool philosophers, musicians and others of the intellectual sort.

as to who started it, look no further than your comrade mr. bendover...who isn't even a resident of this fair city.

do yourself a favor and stick to the DCB, as it's apparently the only kind of logic you can understand.

Hearsay, speculation and rumor technically don't count as substance.

Start the topic curious, provide some links and get it going. But, some of that stuff, failed DECC expansion for example, there is not a lot to say. The MN legislators failed to pass a bonding bill, aaaannd what?

Empty Beacon point thing is funny, so many fucking condos have been going up lately what did they expect? Condos for all!!! Looking at all the condos I ruminate on the idea that it is a good thing dynamite is so hard to get.

Got anything other then hot air regarding people being paid off?

yeah ok, next

I had never heard of the other blog until now.

Another issue is how the city of Duluth wastes its resources and goes against business.

The condo thing hit Duluth after everywhere else, the downtown is dying like every other downtown around the state that built its mall on the outskirts of town, the great planning job of not having any major roads to the mall area from the East side..

How about Duluth wanting to close its newest high school because they heard the land was valuable. A 250 million dollar building project to cut costs.

Yeah ok, next.

interesting that you hadn't, if i'm supposed to believe that. you'd fit right in there, really.

Duluth wastes its resources like every other city in the US. yes, it's true. and please oh please can you share how Duluth "goes against business." or not. this tired old saw is making me yawn. it's like there's a Fox News of Duluth, and the repetition of vague assertions with no real substance is the way of it.

anyone who spends any time downtown and has been to any other downtown in a post-industrial city of its size would never say that the downtown is "dying." sometimes it has struggled mightily, but i'd say it's winning.

i doubt anyone on this list is going to worry about East Enders or anyone else getting to the mall. and i'll say this: i'm so sick unto death of listening to car-obsessed Duluthians complain about the condition or inconvenience of their roads. whyn't you walk somewhere, bike? experience the wonder of being yelled at and threatened by fatheads who don't know the law as you ride on the potholed edge of the road. while

school systems everywhere are creating bigger schools and dumber, more alienated kids. there's a freaking surprise.

and BTW, who is "Duluth"?

[why am i doing this? huh? this kind of meaningless, trolly chatter is why i never read that stupid blog. *shaking fist* DAMN YOU, C-Freak!!]

I suppose in the long run, all bitchiness aside, the real question is "what are you doing about it"? There are people who feel the downtown needed extra oomph, so now we have a new MAC coming and an independent film venue. What have you done for downtown? You've complained about the lack of access to the mall and the fact the mall kills downtown, complain about Central closing (to save money) and that the city wastes money...
Are you bringing anything to the table? Because it is easy to complain, there is no shortage of keyboard jockeys out there to point out the fault of others, not so many people willing to do the real work.

What are you doing? Atleast I am aware of the issues.

I hate arguements like that.

Another thought... Let's look at gas prices for a moment..

What can I do to solve the National problem of fuel economy in American automobiles?

Last night there was a commercial on TV for a new Chevy that has 325 h.p... Then this morning it was reported that Ethanol gets 1/3 of the mpg. that unleaded does.

What can I do? Ride a fricken' bike? What do you do?

jesus christ on a fuck stick! we're aware of the issues. they are fucking ginormous! sometimes you have to laugh so's not to fucking cry. good luck stirring the shit. i hope you're ready to be taken to task. and yes, many PPD'ers and "others" (i love how you are so brave you won't even use a legit email mr. or ms. other) choose to ride bike instead auto.

yes, in-curious, ride a fricken bike. how fucking hard is that?

or walk.
or use your car only when absolutely necessary.
or only own one car per family.
or take the bus.
or do all of the above.


perhaps it's not you. it's just that i'm really tired of listening to people thinking that is just beyond the pale. so *weird*.

sometimes i really do think humans don't deserve to survive.

And how about supporting your local vendors? Instead of driving all the way to tne mall, use the local hardware, grocer, drug store, etc. That in itself is a huge "issue" that's never discussed on the Citizen's Bog. They carp about how Duluth isn't business friendly and then bitch because Walmart isn't in their backyard. Perhaps even dig a garden and grow some of your own food so it doesn't have to be transported all the way from some other country!

I ride a bike, walk, and own a car that from 1992 that gets almost 40 miles to the gallon.

I was mostly resonding to edgeways who asked what am I doing about the problems.

The rants on that other blog are boring to read. I think the city of Duluth should encourage more stores that are mall styled stores to be closer to downtown. I see old pictures of a JC Penny's, Sears, etc.. The mall sucks, Hermantown growing is going to hurt Duluth in the long-run.

What is Donny Ness doing about any of these things? When will the people running for mayor recognize the issues that the urban study they did a few years ago laid out?

DECC expansion, School realignments, and other stuff just take the focus away from the real issues.

Like how can an MAC survive in a downtown area that is not that commercial?

Probably the only reason that Superior street is changing is from the new Sheraton and condos being built. That looks like a positive direction..

What I want to see is a mayor that will make this city the greatest in the state. Keep young people in the area with decent paying jobs. Young people are not looking to be entertained, and with what our jobs pay us up here we can't go out that much.

What if the young people who come here and celebrate geek prom, Homegrown, and bands got together and tried to make a difference the rest of the year?

What about a large festival like Homegrown at the BAyfront over several days? What about some bands playing at Leif Erickson park?

I am just saying there are things we can do locally to improve this area. Not just piss and moan about bands.

other, aka curious, i challenge you to come down to the pride festival at bayfront park on sept 2nd. it's an all day affair with tons of stuff going on. check our the citizens blog when that rolls around and hear the hate puked.


a mall closer to downtown? what? are you serious? where do you propose putting it? maybe sandwiching it between St. Luke's and St. Mary's but then...there are homes and businesses and neighborhoods between the hospitals...that means Eminent Domain, which means taking people's houses and livelihoods away from them.


and don't even get me started on festivals...some make it and some don't. Thing is...the people that are putting on the music events here (homegrown, et al...) are also the musicians and artists who're playing in them.

You're right, there ARE a lot of things to piss and moan about besides bands...but we prefer to piss and moan about bands. One of the best things about this little blog is the fact that it's pretty free from the issues that you're focusing on.

It's not that we don't care about those issues, curious...we just don't want to care about them here.

get it?

Ez, I think s/he means stores that are currently in the mall, not another mall.

Good to hear that you bike, walk and have a 40mpg car... THATS what you do when gas prices are expensive, I also do all those things and while higher gas prices are of some concern I have other things that are of greater concern, gas is a limited commodity it is going to keep going up till we finally run out. The MAC is going to be operated rent free, that's why it stands a chance of surviving.

Just because there is not incessant chatter about everything that hits the papers does not mean the readers here aren't aware of what is going on, and personally knowing many of these people most of them are exceedingly well informed, and active in making this place a better place. From cultural to politics, to art, to business you are addressing a group of people that have parts of their (real)lives immersed in this stuff. That's why I made the argument above about being involved, when you talk about it in real life, participate in it, and make the effort day to day then someone comes along and starts berating you because this part of your life is not spent examining the minutia of the very issues you may be involved in it rubs people the wrong way. We know about this stuff, Sometimes perhaps better than you. I recognize what you say you are concerned about wanting Duluth to live up to it's potential, everyone here feels the same way, they work at it every day. I personally think the ONLY way to make a difference is to pick something you care about and work on it. It doesn't have to be your job, but if you define your life solely by your job you need to find something else to do. For instance (not an exhaustive list by any means) join your neighborhood committee, go to council meetings, talk to your city counselor. I wouldn't say I know any of the council members real well but I have talked to at least four or five of them as counselors and as just everyday working schmoes. They are people, most of them are reasonably nice people, they are not some group of evil masterminds bent on taking bribes are fucking the city over. When you are not involved it is easy to pretend great powers are aligning against you and everything you hold dear.

Essentially, focus, become part of the process in whatever it is you are most concerned about.

I for one..after reading all this mindless bitching am gonna ride my bike to The Brewhouse and listen to Starfire play good tunes. The rest of you can sit here and flog the obvious.

i roast more coffee before 9 a.m. than most people drink all day.

I care about the advancement of this city. Granted I only moved up here 3 years ago from the Twin Cities, I see this town making obvious mistakes.

Like condos.. The stopped building them in the cities cuz no one was buying them. Now Duluth is a day late and a dollar short. I still think the only reason they are talking about the school closings is to build more condos on that Central land. The problem is that by the time the city and school do everything they need to do it will be too late.

Duluth should not try to keep up with trends, but concentrate on its own identity.

IF I had to pick one thing to help though, I would like to see a Homegrown styled festival at Bayfront during the summer.

I'd also like to see some more commercial businesses downtown or on the West side by Menards/Kmart/SuperOne. I have no idea what to do to help that though.

I would like to help in any way possible to get a Homegrown styled festival during the summer. Imagine all those tourists shelling out money there.. The Buzz it would create, and how much fun it would be for the younger people.

Or what if a few bands played a little bit around the movies being shown at Leif Erickson?

I used to do publicity for bands and would be willing to work for free to help in any way possible.

That's MUCH better, everyone! Let's remember that we're all a part of this community. A successful community requires businesspeople, artists, bankers, lawyers, cops, and criminals.

Let the DCB do their thing, and we'll do ours. There's a reason why DCBers are there and PDDers are here. We should be happy about multiple active community blogs, even ones with diverse viewpoints. It makes our city look better in the long run.

And, as always, let's remember that while PDD can use quotes, the DCB has angry eagles over flags. These things matter, folks.

they tried doing a Homegrown type festival at Bayfront...and at Spirit Mt two years before that, and Mont Du Lac the year before...

It was called Green Man, and nobody came. Multi-day music festivals where camping is on site aren't really viable at this point, or at least in this area.

I've been in the music festival game for better than ten years and have 28 under my belt working crew (organizing, running crews, working my ass off), and can tell you, getting those things to fly in these parts is daunting, difficult work. It's a totally different atmosphere up here than you're used to back in the 612. It's just not our thing. we tried it, it didn't work...

There's not enough money here to float a venture like that anymore. Big guys like 10K Lakes and Bonnaroo are successful because they have:

(a) location. i.e., enough space in good geography for a lot of people and their vehicles, tents, kind veggie burritos, dogs, hackey sacks and frisbees, etc...to roam around in during the three days they're camped out there...Spirit Mt won't allow it...and nobody really wants to set up a tent on the concrete in the DECC parking lot. Every other space is deadland industrial superfund sites. You can pretty much count out any location that is within 30 miles of the city.

(b) money. and lots of it. Good luck finding that.

(c)people to help do your work. parking, tickets, garbage, band hospitality, vendor hospitality, security, etc...for the entire weekend.

(d)a whole team of hotshot lawyers that'll be able to navigate the maze of bureaucracy that you'll have to go through to put one of these suckers on.

(e) time. and lots of it. I know people who've been in the game for two decades and have only in the last few years been able to keep their shirts.

Hats off to you if you can make it work...really.

(f) weather and the grace of the gods. With outdoor concerts, people will generally hold off on buying tickets until the day-of to see what the weather looks like.

This makes even simple things, like taking advantage of Leif Erikson or Lake Place Park, more complicated, which ==> more expensive. Not that I'm naysaying--I would love to see more outside music/events. Just be aware that "outside" is easily 10x more expensive and complicated than setting up a show at an indoor venue.

Thanks for the link to that wonderful blog. It is now on my must read list. I realize the world is filled with people like that, but I still get freaked out when presented a view inside their brains. This quote from said blog says it all " A student at Stowe School was viciously assaulted last week by a student of color. The injured student is still in the hospital with broken bones. Hate to sound the alarm but it appears we are in for a cultural change and it is not for the better." Scary sh*t!

That scary shit was submitted by someone claiming to be David D and the morons moderating the DCB were dumb enough to post it. David D and the D is for Duke, David Duke. I am sure the comment was an attempt to stir up racism on the blog.

Makes you wonder why they have moderators when they are not smart enough to filter out the truly offensive submissions.

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