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Playing Devil's Advocate

I want to talk about Grandma's, because lately I've been thinking about it and it really baffles me.

Recently, in.dog.neato commented that someone told him the new Dubhlinn bar was "Grandma's with Guinness." Now, I suppose this might also mean that the place isn't very "Irish," but it has another meaning that I think most people who've spent at least a few years in this town understand.

Among many Duluthians, consensus is that Grandma's blows.

But here's where the whole Devil's Advocate thing comes in: I'm not exactly sure why people think that.

If you compare Grandma's to, say, Pizza Lucé, it's different, but it really isn't that different. The prices are pretty similar. Both have very good bartenders and good happy-hour specials. They're both restaurants at heart. Both are small regional chains. Grandma's doesn't have live music and probably doesn't serve any vegetarian fare, but other than that, the main difference is that vastly different types of people frequent each place.

And most people who frequent Pizza Luceé wouldn't be caught dead at Grandma's, I suspect for that very reason.

Another comment in.dog.neato recently made (I'm not picking on you -- seriously -- your ideas just make me think a lot -- it's a compliment, really!) was "Duluth doesn't really have distinct lines between the various social cultures or 'scenes.'" To a certain extent, this is true. But here is an example of an extremely distinct line. Others on this site have often said that Duluth is "clique-y." Maybe this kind of thing is what they were talking about, but I doubt it.

It sometimes seems like there are huge swaths of people we don't even consider when we think about our city or our lives. I can guarantee you that there are thousands of people in this city who do not even know that the Homegrown Music Festival exists, and it isn't for a lack of advertising or hype. I've met a lot of them. They were all very nice.

So what do you think about Grandma's and the people who frequent it? What do you think about other "scenes"? What/who do you hate? Who do you love? What do you want?

Comments

There are a few things I dislike about Grandma's that have little to do with who eats there or who works there. When we first moved to Duluth and started trying differnt places to eat the Grandma's chain got tried a few times, and I came to dislike the food, it is Perkin's quality overpiced, the restaurants tend to suffer from the too much faux crap nailed to the wall syndrom. Some places do it well, some don't. Then as time went on and the owners started getting bitchy becasue they didn't like the smoking ban and the higher per hour wages the wait staff make in MN as opposed to other states, going so far as threatening to move to florida, I really started to dislike the place (i.e. the company). Recently there was a letter to the editor from a waitress from grandma's who said the company takes 2% of all tips paid by credit card, at which point "fucking sleeze balls" enterd my view of the corporation.
Intensicly I have nothing against those that work or eat at Grandma's, (I probably woudn't set foot inside a Sports Garden on a Friday night no matter who ran it) but I really realy don't like the way it is run.
What do I hate? I hate meat market nights, over enthuastic drunk beligerant people, or I guess I should say I hate being in situations in which I have to deal with people who are such.


naah...no prob Barrett...you sir, stimulate my pontifications as well..

I guess the whole Grandma's 'crowd' didn't really come to mind...perhaps because it hit me as more of a collegey/yuppie/tourista type of a clientele. I guess that could also be said for the Tap Room, and the D.A.C. As for the collegey/touristey contintingent, that group of people is for the most part temporary or transient resident.

And, you're correct...there is a HUGE amount of people who don't know things like Homegrown and the other wacky events we have here exist. It's not for the lack of trying on anyone's parts, I suppose...

I think to a large degree, we associate around music. It's a central theme as to why a lot of us get together on a regular basis. We have the benefit of having such a diverse music scene here, and to that, a diverse collection of people who attend those musician's gigs...if you go to a Farewell Tour/Portrait of a Drowned Man thing on Wed, you'll see some of the same people at the Trampled By Turtles thing on Saturday. Granted the 'hippie' crowd doesn't cross over as much, but you get the jist...but for the most part, everyone plays and parties together...


i've danced at grandma's.


i've danced at grandma's too. i've gone to the sports garden for $1 import nights and pool. but i can't handle the TTHs (tube top ho's), WBCS (white baseball cap sydrome) dudes, applebee's-style decor, perkins-style food, poor treatment of workers and overall republican ambiance. i'd rather hang out at a TGIF than at grandma's.


I don't really mind the Grandma's restaurants (just high-priced so-so food to me). However, I do hate the large crowds of ass-hats that the Sports Garden tends to attract, and I hate the Granma's coroporatation when they interfere with Duluth (buying up all of the liquor liscenses, threatening to leave if the living wage was passed, etc).


This is a good topic. Although I now live in Minneapolis, I grew up in Duluth. I never got a really good sense of who lives there. What does the average Duluthian look like?

I think the answer to that question can be found more at Mr. Ds or other places in West Duluth than at either Grandmas or Luce. Duluth is a blue collar town where the number one rated radio station is often country or classic rock. The best selling concerts are often country or classic rock.

Duluth is not just Trampled by Turtles hippies and Grandmas tourists/students/Republicans. Honestly the real Duluth loooks a lot like Superior.


Edgewood:

I think the "fucking sleeze balls" comment would more effectively be directed toward the credit card companies who are beginning to charge ever exorbitant interchange fees to these businesses for the option of using their credit cards as payment for services.

Ridiculously high interchange fees are one of the reasons most places in Duluth won't accept American Express cards.

In my opinion, it makes sense for servers/restauranteers to let the public know about these fees and to suggest that they tip (and if possible pay) only in cash.


You are probably right Mark, there is probably enough fucking sleeze ball-ish to go 'round


"In my opinion, it makes sense for servers/restauranteers to let the public know about these fees and to suggest that they tip (and if possible pay) only in cash."

Plus, if you tip in cash, the server has the option of reporting it on their taxes, or not.


Personally, i could go for a Godfather II at the one in west duluth anytime... and on a good day, their onion rings rock(but don't get the half order, it's a waste of money). it's an excellent lunch spot for the west end semi-professional.


1. Always tip your server with cash. Many resturaunts in both MN and WI are starting to do this. And yes, the cause lies with the credit card companies. Family out west has told me that many gas stations are adding surcharges to credit/debit cards as well for purchases.

2. It's my understanding that 30 years ago, Grandma's was the "edgy, alternative" place to go. If anything they are a victim of their own sucess. I can remember that was the only place down there, now the whole area is developed and probably nicer to hang out in.

3. I agree that the "average" Twin Ports resident has more in common with Mr. D's, then Luce or the Shor.

4. I worked for Grandma's for a short time in 91. I was treated well, paid decent, and given a free meal/bar drink every shift. Don't know if that's changed or not.

5. I have not been to a Grandma's in probably four years.

6. The real Duluth looks like Superior? As a life-long resident of Superior I'll take that as a compliment.


I have a problem with Grandma's because of their overwhelming pretentiousness. The food is mediocre and overpriced, they try too hard at being edgy or funky, and they don't seem to think that they should have to follow what the citizens want..like the smoking ban or the wage issue. I cringe at hearing their marketing person (what's-his-George Hamilton tanned-aging prettyboy name?)whenever he's whining that Duluth makes it hard for them to make a living. Puleeeze. He does a good job at turning me off. At least Luce' has some creativity in the food offerings, and the servers seem to be happy to be serving the food. I've always felt pretty welcome at Luce, as opposed to Grandma's where I often feel I'm being looked down on.



I spent my early 20s at Grandmas and my late 20s at the NorShor. I can tell you there is nothing inherently good or evil about either place. Sure, you'll find your share of knuckleheads at G'Mas and just as you'll find a few stuck up scenesters at Luce. But the fact of it is the vast majority of folks at both places are generally good people with something to offer.

One thing I really valued about the NorShor was that although I didn't fit the mold, I felt accepted as part of that community. There seemed to be a real unity there and an interesting, diverse group of people.

Now, it might be hard for me to tell, since I don't go out much any more - but, it sure seems like there is a lot more back-biting, old grudges, and exclusivity around these days. Who are the people in their 20s who define the community, who bring people in and make it worth being a part?

This happens when people start staking out their "scene" protecting what they have rather than contributing to building a community. PDD is the one really positive rallying point right now - thanks to Barrett, Scott, and others who contribute.


upon reflection, I can understand a restaurant wanting to recover some of the fees that credit card processors charge, but I still think it is obnoxious to take it out of tips, as opposed to just adding a 1%-2% fee onto the check.

Guess it is time to start reverting to old fashion checks


What Edgewood said.


all the servers are hot at that place. I saw buddy and the drawers at grandmas. I also saw the socrates get blown up on the beach from the thunderdome. I got a fly in my chix wrap there before as well.


I saw Baci there. He was hot enough to be served. Larry Whalen, too. Goodnight Paul Labadie, wherever you are.


Embers in West Duluth doesn't even take old fashion checks anymore.

Coversely, though, they do print your entire CC# and expiration date on your CC receipt. Check the garbage in the entry way if you're guessing where I'm guessing 90% of people who throw away their CC receipts throw away their CC receipts.

I did bitch to the manager--supposedly it's the customer's responsibility to secure to their copy of the receipt with their CC# on it.


All i gotta say is Grandmas does have $3 pitchers of Long Islands.


There is a new rule for MN as of like last summer that full CC numbers are illegal on receipts.

I kinda like that embers. Makes me think I'm in an ihop in tennessee.


Went to Grandma's in W. Duluth recently for happy hour after a visit to the DMV. It was really quite nice. They have Widmer Hefeweizen on tap and an okay hot wings platter (just don't get the boneless wings). The crowd was definetly not my crowd, West Duluth professionals and a few regulars who had probably been there since one...very relaxing. My wife had never been to a Happy Hour before (she's from Central Wisconsin where every hour is a Happy Hour) and was amazed. -People really do this? They go to the bar right after work, get tanked, and then go home to their families? Why don't they go home, pick up their families, go to a fish fry, and get tanked with their families?-

Aren't Wisconsonites and their sensibilities cute?

Anyway, my point is, not a huge Grandma's fan, but I did have fun there one Friday afternoon.


Went to Grandma's in W. Duluth recently for happy hour after a visit to the DMV. It was really quite nice. They have Widmer Hefeweizen on tap and an okay hot wings platter (just don't get the boneless wings). The crowd was definetly not my crowd, West Duluth professionals and a few regulars who had probably been there since one...very relaxing. My wife had never been to a Happy Hour before (she's from Central Wisconsin where every hour is a Happy Hour) and was amazed. -People really do this? They go to the bar right after work, get tanked, and then go home to their families? Why don't they go home, pick up their families, go to a fish fry, and get tanked with their families?-

Aren't Wisconsonites and their sensibilities cute?

Anyway, my point is, not a huge Grandma's fan, but I did have fun there one Friday afternoon.


To tell you the truth, I've never enjoyed a stranger humping my ass while I'm alone dancing. That is one reason I hate Grandma's. Number two: I found a rock in my salad like construction gravel and it was scary!!! Number three: It's owned by a rich family who has nothing better to do then to shut down the ma & pop shops.

Grandma's Marathon also litters Duluth like crazy!!! it makes my city look dirty!!
DAMN YOU ALL IN YOUR POLO SHIRTS AND BMW'S!!!


Grandma's Marathon sucks! ugh. hate it. I do like the onion soup sometimes at the original Grandma's...and beer. sweet,sweet beer...and antique signs, I like those too.


I went to the Dubhlinn last night. Ugh, it is "Grandmas with Guinness".
Teh suck!


one year i seen you running alongside ann glumac monroe. you lie!


me and Sasquatch are tight.


or rather, Sasquatch and I are tight


i'm not going there...


Here is a top ten list, Grandmas sucks (compared to Luce)because:
1. You never see local art hanging there.

2. You never see local artists hanging there. (Unless they are momentarily lost in some kind of midlife crisis.)

3.They don't support local music, I don't think they know it exists.

4. They do not support live music, with the possible exception of GB Leighton

5. The canned music they play there sucks.

6.Predatory labor practices result in servers working for migrant wages, management claims paying such "excessive" wages may lead to relocation or closure.

7. I have never had a satisfactory dining experiece there, unless you count downing cheap margaritas and running like hell as dining.

8. Clientele; even major league catchers have stopped wearing there caps backwards, they KNOW it kills brain cells.

9. Just how much waterfront, and how many liquor licenses do we wish to grant a souless tourist driven monopoly which makes it so hard for us locals to get to the damn beach b4 the beer gets warm?

10. Every year they make legions of otherwise intelligent people run down our streets until their nipples bleed, their toenails fall out, and they poop their pants. Just so they can have a plate of crummy spaghetti lite beer and the aforesaid GB Leighton.

I hope this clears thingsd up..


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