New Comment Policy
By Barrett Chase on Dec 26, 2011 in Uncategorized
This morning at a meeting among Perfect Duluth Day’s owners, it was decided to change PDD’s commenting policy. Effective immediately, only PDD members may comment on posts. New commenters must join PDD and log in to make comments. This is not in response to any particular situation, but rather a change we have been contemplating for quite some time. We believe it will improve the website in the long run.
It sounds harsher and more dramatic than it actually is. For those who are currently without a PDD membership, registering is a simple, easy process. All current members will simply be prompted to log in before commenting.
Feel free to ask questions, whine like a baby, or celebrate the new policy in the comments below. After registering and/or logging in of course.
ARGH! Commies!
There is no way to log in from the “mobile theme”. Damn amateurs! Kidding. Please don’t ban me. But seriously, I wanted to comment on Mail Guy’s missing comma, but I couldn’t log in from the mobile site. Please don’t ban me.
No problems, here. What happened to the pitbull thread? lots of comments and they just disappeared?
The pit bull post was removed at the request of the post’s author.
Thanks! I was wondering what happened.
Blarg, blarg, blarg, blarg.
Vicarious: On the mobile version, open the menu next to the header to enter your username and password. Once you are logged in, you’ll see a comment field in its usual place.
Vicarious: tapping the down arrow to the right of the header gives a login option on the mobile theme. At least this works for iOS devices, far as I know.
Ah! Beaten…
Most PDD posts are from people who are not logged in. A lot of those people either lack and account or are too lazy to log in. Some of them might be at the Duluth library and not want to use a password on a public computer. Others might want to remain anonymous from PDD while making a controversial post (a local business owner, perhaps). Others might be in a hurry and not want to take the extra time (the nature of surfing is often a quick in and out process in between things, so seconds count).
Regardless, a lot of these people won’t post nearly as much under the new policy. Some won’t post at all. I’ve read a lot of posts that said “I’ve never posted before but…” Some of those people won’t bother with the 5 minutes to set up a username and password to make “one lousy post.” But some of those one-time posts are insightful and helpful, especially on archaic topics like “Who can help me find a dog sitter in my neighborhood.” If I live in that neighborhood but I’m not registered, I probably won’t register just to respond to the one post that I have some insightful information about. But I might post if it is just a matter of seconds to type a simple post.
This change in PDD policy is a little like Wisconsin’s restrictive Voter ID law: in theory is shouldn’t change anything, but in fact it could reduce the number of “voters” and “users” quite a lot. A lot of regulars won’t post as much as a result, and the non-regulars will post even less. It is a big change to PDD that will change the number of people in conversations here.
Sam -- While I do think that there will be a number of less contributors, it will also reduce the number of trolls. I feel as though many troll comments detract from the discussions and if someone who has something important to contribute, registering is really not that difficult.
Pretty sure the intent of PDD isn’t to disenfranchise posters.
Got it. Thanks, Barrett.
I don’t think the intent is to disenfranchise, but the effect will be. It might reduce some trolls, but some of the craziest posters are registered users anyway, and some of the best posters are not registered users. For example, the DNT has required logging in for years and a huge percent of their posters are borderline personalities.
Crazy people are often more motivated to post than non-crazy people. Some normal people might not be as motivated to go through the registration process to post into a simple conversation. One nice thing about PDD is that new people get into the conversation easily.
I think the new PDD policy will result in the loss of as many good posts as bad.
Well, the registration process was not too difficult. I had been slacking on actually registering.
Sam, once you’re registered, logging in to comment requires one click, so long as you’re remembered on the computer. I realize this doesn’t help those using a public computer, but still.
I also think the owners are relatively reasonable gentlemen, so if someone did wish to post something controversial that required a certain sense of anonymity, I’m sure they could come up with a solution.
Quality over quantity. I say, good choice--and thank you, guys, for your continued thoughtful support of discourse in the community.
I don’t think it is merely a matter of lowering quantity and increasing quality. I think we will lose a number of both high and low quality posts.
And just because it is easy to register doesn’t mean people will do it. Using a car’s turn signal is really easy, but half of Duluth doesn’t do it.
Awwww … you mean I have to stop calling myself “Jim”? Really guys … did someone finally get a lawyer involved?
“The tighter you close your fist, the more systems will slip through your fingers.” Anonymous ranting and porn built the internet. Now, I guess that just leaves you all to nude pictures of PDD staff to help draw in the hits.
I hope anonymous ranting and porn are not the reasons people visit this website. If they are, we aim to disappoint. However, the comments on this very page are still semi-anonymous, and there are several posts about Ween’s Chocolate and Cheese album cover to satisfy those desires.
I did not know you could log in through mobile.
*bing* The more you know…
I’m ok with the change. I have been a little scarce around here, mainly due to a new gosling and holiday busy-ness, but also because we have been having some very loooong threads with a lot of churn and not much new insight being added (I’ll go ahead and include myself as a culprit there so you don’t have to roll your eyes if you haven’t already.)
I don’t know if the change will affect that churn or not, but maybe. Another positive possibility not yet mentioned is that if people take the plunge and register, maybe we’ll start having some greater variety of bloggers, too. More could mean merrier there.
Just seeing whether I remember my password.
I am intrigued.
Damn, another password to remember….
Anyways, who wants to go on a walk with my pit bulls Felony and Jugular?
mkay
I’m really surprised how many people here seem to not be registered anyway. I’ve always been more a reader/lurker here, but I like to comment from time to time. A while back, I figured it would just be easier to take 2 minutes to create an account so I just have to click a button to sign in every once in a while, rather than filling out my name and email address and whatever else the comment form required every time I wanted to chime in.
I imagine that this policy change will also help drive up the number of registered users at PDD, which will allow the owners to brag and look more appealing to potential advertisers. But hey, that’s the way internet and advertising works.
Ugh! I’m still recovering from Boxing Day!!!
“I imagine that this policy change will also help drive up the number of registered users at PDD, which will allow the owners to brag and look more appealing to potential advertisers.”
I have no way of knowing and don’t really care, but I suspect this may hold a bit of truth. And I think that’s just fine. The owner’s (as Barrett interestingly labeled themselves; it used to be “administrators”) have invested time and money into site and should expect a return. Requiring registration Gawkerizes the site in a way that definitely adds value to advertisers.
I thought this was the policy all along. When I joined about 5 years ago, I had to email someone and get “the nod.”
So response is a lazy “no big deal.”
Another heavy-handed action by the jack-booted moderators around here who are always, uh, making me look smarter than I am by cleaning up links and paragraphs and stuff.
Which reminds me: I looked in the Help section, but can’t see how to make a “proper” link in a comment. I can make one in a post, though.
Great success!
The idea that this is somehow tied to advertising is a fun conspiracy theory, but is completely untrue. In fact, we’re constantly needing to pare our membership numbers down due to the high number of spammers who join PDD every day. (You never see their posts, because they are always held for moderation and eventually deleted without ever seeing the light of day.)
The data we present to advertisers has more to do with the traffic we receive and with the demographics of our readership rather than the number of members.
Tom and Lucie1970′s points are something we talked about while making this decision. The average user doesn’t realize this, but a surprising number of people used to join PDD to make one or two comments anyway, even when it wasn’t necessary. I suspect this is because a lot of other sites require registration for any type of participation.
DaVe: The only way to make a link in a comment is to use HTML.
Expanding on Barrett’s comment on membership numbers to spell it out as plainly as possible:
The number of registered users is a pretty useless stat to advertisers because it doesn’t represent “active” users. People who registered two years ago but don’t visit the site anymore are not valuable to advertisers anymore, but people who continue to visit and lurk but never register or comment can still be sold to. So the site analytics are our selling tool.
As mentioned above, this move is likely to reduce the number of comments on the site, at least in the short term, which could reduce traffic and make it less appealing to advertisers. But our bet is that it will reduce the number of annoying comments and make the site more enjoyable to read, therefore improving traffic. We’ll see. So it’s not really a move to help sell ads; it’s a move to make the site better. But, yeah, we always hope making the site better will sell more square boxes.
Can I still put gravy on my fries?
If you are on a mobile device, the only way to register is to put in a wrong login so you are taken to a page with the option to register. Just a heads up to those using an iphone if they desire to register via it.
I remembered my password! It’s a x-mas miracle.
You Fascist pigs!
If you are on an iPhone, just turn off the “mobile theme” at the bottom of the page, then you can get to the registration link on the top banner on the regular page.
You can then turn the “mobile theme” back on after you register if you like.
The new policy is fine, but under the old policy you could guard against accidentally posting half-completed comments by erasing your name and web address from the name and web boxes until ready to post. Under the new policy, you can accidentally post merely by cli
I approve!
Once upon a time, some big change happened here that required us to all set up new accounts. I didn’t do it, and therefore didn’t post for a couple of years -- which is weird, because before that, I overshared here quite frequently. I even got an email from Barrett when I tried to post with my old account, encouraging me to register because it’s really not that hard. Know what? It’s not! It’s really, really not.
If the new policy in any way maintains or enhances the quality of PDD, then I’m all for it! There are far too many blogs in Duluth that degenerate into craziness due to a few trolls. Fortunately, for sanity and interesting discussion we have PDD!
And yes, I need another comma in that last sentence.
@DaVe -- FYI you can also post a URL into a comment and it will automatically turn into a link.
see:
A lot of sites are using some type of internet magic to use Facebook accounts for commenting. Any thoughts on doing that here? People who don’t want to create a PDD account may find it easier to click a link that says “Log in via FB.”
Good idea, might cut down on spam or whatever.
Facebook is the devils work 8^)
Can you make a Womp Womp Button, so when someone womp womps too much you can just press the Womp Womp Button and not have to scroll past their insufferable, self-flagellating, over disclosing womp womp? Maybe have a filter for people that refer to their kids by cutsie nicknames, on-the-sleeve dog owners, armchair nightlife critics, and posters that use the phrase “moral turpitude?”
Adam, I’ve got some great new pics of the “goslings” to show you whenever you have several hours. Not being on the Facebook you’ve missed out on about 6 years of my banal, occasionally self-flagellating musings about my life and the moral turpitude of contemporary American culture. Perhaps some night when there’s nothing but crap going on in Duluth?
Now that everyone will need to be registered, can you bring back the PDD profiles?
I loved that part of the site.
I’m just happy I remembered my password!
You all wanted to be rid on anonymity so get ready for the results.
@Adam, “moral turpitude”, the shared morals and standards of the community. The “owners” of PDD have ashewed years of lawless anonymous posting now in some form of enforced “moral turpitude”, I personally understand the reasoning and yet mourn the loss of vestigial recklessness which was once one of the funnest part of this, once underground, collection of like minded local quirksters. I guess, along with gentrification comes gloss.
This is going to be exquisite.
Oh, and: womp womp.
I feel like my creative juices are being dried up by the forced unanonymity of my userID.
I say we Occupy PDD and rise up against the 1% of us who have control over the site.
Wow…Really?!!?! adam, take a little arm-chair advice, put your “womp womp” back in your lederhosen and focus on making the transistor more than just a gland-hand-bill-job for anyone who buys an ad…n’kay.
I said, I understand the reason for this change, and an mourning the loss of recklessness that used to make this place visceral, personal and human ..and real….. I built and hosted the first version of PDD, I have been here since DAY ONE .. I have every right to comment on where this is/has/will gone and going. I’ve pissed people off, I’ve made people laugh, I have and will use this place as a platform for community. The loss of anon posting is trivial, but I DO see it as part of an evolution that is occurring…for better and worse.
“The idea that this is somehow tied to advertising is a fun conspiracy theory, but is completely untrue.”
I would characterize the idea more as reasonable speculation than a conspiracy theory.
My guess is that it will tend to reduce the range of responses to many topics. The change may affect the esoteric topics more considerably than others. In practice, topics like “What is the support group for recovering Thundarr the Lipucian Barbarian addicts like in Duluth?” may have a lower chance of garnering a wide-ranging response from the Duluth community.
The fast-clicking nature of the internet means that if something takes 5 seconds vs. another thing that takes 5 minutes, a lot more people will respond to the thing that takes 5 seconds. And I don’t think that the community of “5-second responders” is overall worse than the community of “5-minute responders.”
The “5-second community,” however, is a much larger one. And being much larger, it is much more representative of the wider Duluth Community.
I’m making a pledge to the formarlly relevant, vibrant, interesting, and weirdo PDD community, circa 2004ish, when PDD was fun instead of tiring and too-political/trollish/argumentative:
I, (insert name), pledge to post one Duluth-related outlandish, and/or random, creative, funny, non-event-related, apolitical, strange, image-focused and/or whatever weird line drawing-obsessed post at least once per month.
I, (insert name), recognize that the current “owners” of PDD seem incapable of nurturing the original intent (whatever the hell that was) and that lately PDD has grown more and more irrelevant and icky.
I promise to change this.
Signed, (Insert name)
Baci, you didn’t build or host the first version of PDD. I have no idea where you got that as it isn’t even close to being slightly true.
Oh Jeebus, Barrett. Your reply to Baci is the very reason PDD had lost it’s luster. It’s the Full Icky. PDD “owners” are trying to be big fish in a small pond. I’m a small pond, there are no big fish. Small fish eating smaller fish guarantee their own death.
Never mind, I found the Womp Womp Button!
Vicarious, can you elaborate on that?
Not really, Barrett. I have been PDD’d for many long years. I just hate the serious nature now. It used to be just fun, creative, odd, etc. Now, it’s all arguments (I fault myself, partially).
OK, I have elaborated. I will stick to my pledge, then. Damn you, Mail Guy, for making me stick to my guns!
Well, you are right about one thing. I should never take Baci seriously.
Hee hee. Wise man says we should never take anything seriously.
“whatever weird line drawing” Oh, I am all over that!
How do we add avatars to our profiles? I see no option for one.
Oh, well… I guess it somehow just… Conjured it. I didn’t actually add it to my profile so I’ll just assume voodoo.
Carry on.
Vicarious, you got me thinking, though. Here is the first post I can remember where someone complained that PDD wasn’t fun anymore: September 13, 2004.
wingsofjudas: At some point, you must have joined Dec 27, 2011 | New Comment
Of all the arguments I’m hearing against this change, the only one that really makes sense is Sam’s. He’s right that PDD will lose some comments from people passing through who aren’t regular users of PDD, and some of those comments have been a very positive aspect of the site. Still, we feel that as the site has continued to grow the process of moderating trolls has grown with it, and this comment policy change will make that job easier.
The overall feel of the site — and certainly the extent to which it is political/trollish/argumentative — should only improve with this change. It’s specifically designed to make trolling more difficult.
More cowbell.
I’m beginning to think this change will help return PDD to it’s previous awesome weirdness. My pledge stands.
This is so fun, creative and odd I just about wet myself. Though I do appreciate the serious, political side of PDD as well. Sometimes it’s impossible to dissociate the global from the Duluthian. I love the corn-ball ethnocentrism here, but it seems flippant to ignore the bigger picture unfolding on the world stage. When hot-particles from Fukushima turn up in air filters from Seattle to Boston, one would think we’ve huffed a few right here. That sort of thing combined with smelting, snowmobiles and Baci’s false memories keep me coming back for more . Womp?
Barrett, PDD started as a blog from Starfire’s rock nanny saga…I built, and hosted, a mini CMS for him to post about his travels, he got the blog bug and PDD grew from that. My humble contribution to this community was to support him, and eventually PDD (I DID have admin creds at one time if you’ll remember) in a technical capacity. We all owe this community to HIM! I’ve also had the honor to contribute content (under my name and anonymously), most of it relevant, well meaning and supportive, most of it. For you to get so serious, pissy and self righteous about all this underscores my point. Vic is right, PDD just changed. Take me seriously or not, I couldn’t care less, but dont think for a moment that this blog isn’t about the people that post, and have posted here for a friggan decade anon or not! Barrett, I’ve always been grateful for the work you and Paul and Brian and the rest of the PDD staff do, it’s alot more work that it looks like, I know. And Adam, please accept my apologies, the transistor is awesome and a benefit to our town -- I just dont appreciate having you wave your “womp” in my face. …So, really guys …wtf? Holy crap all I really did was observe the change, I guess having free thoughts and sharing them doesn’t fit the “plan” anymore. If you’re going to remove the ability for people to post in anonymity, the you have to ready to hear what people really think. If not, then enjoy your good old boy club …
It might be impossible to respond to that without coming off as serious, pissy and self righteous.
Maybe this is the best way to go about it.
Baci, everyone knows PDD was founded by Margaret Frastley and Rick Boo. For you to pretend you don’t remember that is just silly.
Thank God there is a Lundgren here to keep Chase from killing the fun. I’ve never met Chase, but I know Lundgren to be quite personable in the cereal aisle. I just feel like Chase would scowl at me.
The whole “Prove you’re a founder of PDD” thing reinforces the creeping Ickiness. It’s like the snake eating itself…just seems like it would taste unpleasant.
I too was a founder of PDD!
#NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement
I for one am kind of upset that we don’t have more “Total Bullshit” posts.
Because, you know, you can’t bullshit a bullshitter.
If this thread is creepy and icky, I don’t see how that’s Barrett’s fault, but for me to defend him would be creepy and icky, apparently, so I’m going to blame it all on Kelly.
I think this is a great step. Although there are certainly some topics where anonymity is desirable, I think the (limited) measure of responsibility imposed by having one’s pretend-interweb-secret-identity associated with one’s ramblings is a useful antidote to antisocial behavior on the part of a handful of trollish and/or undersocialized community members.
Quick question. Who are the owners who were involved in this discussion? Paul and Barrett? Or are there others?
And this is just my insignificant opinion, but I suspect that some of the dischord in the comments may be related to introducing the idea of ownership to a page that relies heavily on user generated content. That often gets complicated and/or emotional.
Pfft… I coined the term “Perfect Duluth Day” back in ’86 while I was climbing the old tire pyramid in the Lincoln Park school playground.
So if anyone should get credit for starting this site, it should be me.
Hell, I am going to have to start charging 5 cents royalty for every time someone loads this page.
The owners are:
Scott “Starfire” Lunt
Barrett Chase
Paul Lundgren
Brian Barber
Cory Fechner
The details of PDD’s history are found here. Our personnel directory is here.
As for owners vs. administrators (or moderators) it’s important to think about how PDD is both a community blog and a limited liability company. I used the word “owners” above because we had just had a meeting that dealt heavily on the business end of PDD, so that was fresh in my mind. In retrospect I probably should have used one of the other words, since this decision is not directly related to PDD as a business.
I don’t think the loss of anonymity is trivial. Anonymity might be important for discussion of controversial topics about local people that we might know or have business dealings with, like http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/10/25/regarding-rod-raymond/
On that note, Sam, hopefully this move will remind people that they are never as anonymous online as they might think they are. Assuming an alternate identity to post sensitive content is always risky and people shouldn’t be cavalier about it, because finding out who’s behind the comments is a lot easier than the average person understands it to be.
So how is ol’ Mags Frastley these days?
I wan’t suggesting that anonymity was guaranteed or one should be cavalier about it. But someone might to to be MORE ananymous to give accurate information about someone they know or work with. Another example is http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2011/11/25/50-below-duluth-advice .
If I work for 50 Below, and I want to make a legitimate point in the discussion, I might not want to use my PDD account to comment. I’m not ever guaranteed to be 100% anonymous, but if I use my regular PDD ID (which my friends at work know) I might be 100% guaranteed NOT to be anonymous.
I just want to wrap out on this by apologizing for whatever kerffufflery I’ve caused here. I really only meant to comment on the change in an attempt to process, as I’ve stated here several times, I understand the necessity of it, and it makes sense.
Now, b’bye and thanks for all the fish.
on a serious note -- has anyone seen the Lindsey Lohan playboy spread?
If I had seen the Lindsey Lohan spread, I wouldn’t want to say so here using my PDD ID that my coworkers know!
That is a good point -- sometimes anonymous posting is best for the parties involved…
Admis: is it possible to let the PDD post creator have the option to allow different comment types (such as open/anonymous comments, logged-in comments only, or no comments at all)?
I totally get the need for logins to reduce spamming/trolling, but there are cases where it might not be appropriate.
Is Lindsey still so boney? She was cute when she was curvy, but I just don’t see anyone shelling out money to see her coke-head skeleton on display.
Also, if we have to log in, could we have the option to edit our comments, so we don’t look like dumbasses when we ask a question to the page “admis”?
An option to edit our own comments for typos after the fact would be nice.
We’ll be making some back-end upgrades in the near future, and at that time we’ll have to see if we can work in a way for users to edit their own comments.
As for anonymity, your points are valid and duly noted. At this time, however, we want to err on the side of slightly more credibility and consistency, and slightly less hearsay and anonymous reputation-bashing. If this comes at the expense of some potentially useful comments, it’s a price we’re willing to pay.
Lindsay Lohan in Playboy sucked. You can see more of her bits in nasty tabloid websites.
PDD, you guys are on WP 3.1.3 still… current is 3.3. Hope this isn’t the start of a long path of not upgrading WP, because you’ll get hacked some more.
I never registered an account because I don’t care about the account features. Note that this account feature doesn’t have anything to do with anonymity; now the blog owners know a valid email address and it’s more difficult to post. Other than that, anyone is still welcome to be anonymous. It takes like 1/2 a minute to go register a new email and sign up for a PDD account.
Margaret Frastley? It’s sad, she probably died of permanent marker poisoning.
You fuckers just said her name three times..
We will be upgrading WordPress within the next few months. First we have to migrate the whole works to a new server that will better accommodate the beast this site has become.
The geek in me is coming out… whats the specs of the server that is currently hosting it?
Memory / Disk size / CPU
I am assuming of course you are on some kinda linux platform.
Yep Linux.. PDD had been in a shared hosting environment since day 1. We are upgrading to a virtual private server cloud environment, it will vastly improve site speed and reliability. The new server will give us more root control of the software and hardware.
Cory’s kinda badass like that.
I hate shared hosting… it’s like staying at a hotel. Can’t vacuum yourself, can’t change the carpet, having a ton of people over disturbs your neighbors, and your hands are tied because they always assume you might be trying to walk into other people’s rooms or spy on other guests.
VPSs are great, but of course it needs real sysadmin attention to work or you end up with extra layers of security holes (like, if you don’t upgrade Apache, PHP, etc…. speaking of which, time to go do an apt-get safe-upgrade or two!).
I highly, highly recommend Linode for a VPS.