Oh, and it would be nice if a bar or two could go up around there instead of having to take cabs to Fitger's or Canal Park.

@Duluth Bishop,

The developer IS interested in working with the neighborhoods. His people met with Campus Neighbors. My suggestion is that you should connect with those folks, they work to represent the residents of neighborhoods surrounding the campuses. There's a lot of information on their site.

IMHO - All the conversion, both neighborly and vitriolic, has led to awareness and progressive action. While significant issues still remain like parking and parking and also parking, there is a platform for discussion.

Is that area zoned "dry" to some degree? I know the Bulldog sells beer and wine, but it seems like there would be an actual bar near campus already if it were allowed under current rules. Or is it just that full liquor licenses are hard to come by in Duluth?

Bingo. It's gotta be a cool and comfortable and accommodating place for everyone. Lest the locals complain about the annoying college kids and the students complain about the squares that live here. 

I've been hoping a neighborhood would pop up in Duluth and become more progressive. I can see how a new retail/nightlife hub could exist here. The population around campus increases umpteen thousand through the year; let's use that to an advantage.

Let's call it "Duluth Dinktown."

@ B-Man,

*hitching up britches* - The 300' rule, ignorant or not, has done a lot of good.

1. It forced the issue to be resolved with intentionality, discussion and urban planning. Not just allowing wholesale conversion of neighborhoods into profit streams for out of town rental management companies.
  
2. It attempts to address parking sprawl, which is one of the major issues here. I say attempts b/c it's still difficult to find a parking spot on my block because of all the rentals with 6 occupants and no off street parking for the formerly single family dwelling.

3. It spreads the "issue" to the rest of the city. Prompting us ALL to work together to resolve/evolve.

I agree with you, I like living in the neighborhood. I plan on staying (if you could sell your house, would you?). Over the last two years things have gotten much better. Remove controls (like the '300 rule and enforcement of social host fines) and it'll swing back quick ... and worse. I fully support intentional and managed development of infrastructure to support/integrate students in our community.

Because there is not a single decent place to eat on the UMD (especially for international students and faculty), I'd love to see Woodyville have some nice lunch-oriented Asian, Middle Eastern, or Indian cafes as well. Perhaps a mini-international-food court? Maybe a Vietnamese bubble tea/Banh-mi sandwich coffee shop? Panera? Punch pizza?

How about if the housing on this site was for car-free students only? Make a pre-requisite...minimal parking space (vistors only)...it would really push the need to improve the ped/bicycle/mass transit infrastructure of the immediate area.

Paul - good info...then the name, if necessary, must be Chestytown...

@Baci--where is your neighborhood--is it on the other side of Woodland?  And how did you deal with the noise issue (if at all).

@Iron Oregon--great idea to have 'no car' housing, but I wonder if lots of traffic from retail establishments would make it moot.

In honor of Bulldog hockey (who throw GREAT parties BTW) I say call it Rinky-Dinky Town. BTW, JK b/c I like the idea of creating intentional urban space for town and gown.

@emmadogs, We call 911. We used to be nice and go over there and knock on the door and remind them politely (and eventually not so politely) that they live in a family neighborhood. Now, we call 911 and ask the dispatcher to ask the officers to not tell the party house who called. Duluth PD and UMDPD have been very responsive and have, if they have enough staff hours, followed up with party houses, sometimes leading to significant fines. It's their efforts that have really had a good impact on the house parties. As far as noise, 19th Ave (where we live) is a party artery ... the dorms empty during the first couple of weeks and the kids (the underage ones who can't go to bars) spill down and roam in gangs between house parties, calling each other on their phones and bellowing about their love lives. They have no thought that if people did that in their parents' neighborhood, their mom and dad would raise hell with the *insert suburb here* city council (who would in turn do something about it and not cave in to distant rental management companies and slum lords) ... grrr ... trying to be positive and progressive ... sorry .. like I said .. it's been better lately ... more discussion (along with 300 foot - pounds of pressure) have led to some planning. I say support intentional development!

Another question:  does anyone know what effect this would likely have on property values?  Or ability to sell?  

I would guess it would be more difficult to sell a non-rental-appropriate home once this happens (there are some half-million to two-million dollar homes right in that area).

Dinkytown is a historic neighborhood on a grid of connected streets full of different types of buildings of different ages, with many different owners.  These characteristics allow Dinkytown to be a vibrant student-centered neighborhood with diverse housing, restaurant, retail, and convenience options.  

I'm not opposed to a new mixed use development oriented to students on this site, but to pretend a developer can conjure up 'Duluth's Dinkytown' is complete fantasy.

Tim and Rod (aka, Fitger's Brewhouse, Burrito Union, et. al.) have probably known about this for some time. Tim lives on Woodland still I think ... or very near there. Rod lives someplace farther up toward Hartley.

I've been wishing for an REI up here (the closest one is about 130 miles away in Maple Grove of all places...) for about as long as I've been here (which is longer than the Maple Grove REI has been around). If it happens in MN, the vast majority of it happens here (or north of here).

In other news: Walgreens moves to Super Walgreens mid October. Stewart's Wheel Goods is looking real marketable for retail (if it weren't for the drunk tank being between it and Alakef, that spot would be irresistible to anyone looking to open a storefront.

Still no word on the new pharmacy, the fate of the old Walgreens store, Plaza Jubes remodel, or the front of the old Bridgeman's building (Alakef).

I've always wondered why Duluth had such a pathetically boring college district. Or rather, lacked a college district entirely.  No, Superior doesn't count.

Awesome stuff within walking distance of campus? You got... Bixby's Bagels! And a shitty gas station or two. WTF Duluth?

And have you seen the horrible food on campus?  The Chancellor should shut down the whole food system there.  Unhealthy, bland, cheap, high mark-up fast food fluff.

zra- FYI, the Roseville REI is closer to Duluth than the Maple Grove location (although it is close, about 8 miles difference).

REI has considered Duluth for a store in past.  They have a formula that takes into consideration the population, the number of REI members, the other outdoor retailers in the area, the outdoor opportunities, average income, and other factors.  At least 10 years ago REI was opening stores they called "10Ks" (10,000 sq. ft. stores) in smaller markets.  Duluth was one of the better choices in the state, but it never ranked high enough on a national scale for REI to do anything as there are other markets around the country with better opportunity.

emmadogs- Baci beat me to it.  The Kenwood/Chester Park folks have been dealing with the spillover of campus life for years (a lot more than 6).  I grew up a few blocks from 8th St. Video (when it was actually on 8th St.) and we knew of a couple of "college houses" in the neighborhood, but nothing like it has been for the last 10-15 years.

Fist Shaker - just an FYI: at least 2 of the Planning Commission members are residents in the affected area. Not that that makes any difference.

Finally! Student-oriented housing and retail close to campus.  Why anyone would want to attend UMD and live in this sterile campus area is beyond me. It's such a boring area. Where are the funky bookstores, the ethnic restaurants where a college kid can fill the belly for not too much cash? My college town in Michigan in the 1960s was much the same -- wouldn't wish that for students today.

I live near campus and welcome this development.

As someone who grew up in Woodland (walked to Chester Park, Woodland and East) and who also lived a literal baseball toss from Annie's in Dinkytown in college, I can honestly say that nothing they can build can create that kind of atmosphere. That is something that's been developing since the 1920s.

What they CAN build, however, is something that can both alleviate the housing pressure, as well as assure residents of the surrounding streets--Clover on over to Wallace--that they will still have a quiet, relatively normal neighborhood. It sounds like they are doing what they can to take the neighborhood into account, and trust me when I say that isn't always the case in other places.

I wonder if those living on 24th will be most affected as that might become an even busier conduit from the lake up to Woodland. They will need to put lights in at the corner of 24th and 4th if that's the case -- it's nearly a deathtrap as it is.

@Fist Shaker, thanks for the response.  I think we have more in common than I made it out to be, and for that I apologize -- and I'm glad.  I've been in Duluth (and at UMD) for 10 years, and I agree with you completely that the administration for the first 9 years was disconnected from the needs of the community.  I truly believe that has changed, and I truly believe that it's an exciting time to be involved in this process.  Duluth is going to look different in a few years, and you're right that we all have a responsibility to contribute to the dialogue.  Cheers!

Changes that make neighborhoods and business areas easy to walk and bike in will be good for all - students, permanent residents and visitors. Development that mirrors traditional urban grids, rather than strip mall/suburb sprawl, has proven to work better for people and doesn't focus on cars. It's happening in cities across the county.

We've learned from the development mistakes of the 1960s to '90s. Now let's put that knowledge into action.

I'll look forward to positive changes around Mt. Royal and then to Kenwood. Both are in easy walking and biking distance for college students who, for the most part, are young, healthy, fit and active. Same with many residents.

Let's plow down the strip malls and rebuild human-scale businesses. Let's dig up the parking lots and plant trees, make paths and put in bike parking. Let's make it easier to walk, ride a bike or take a bus than it is to drive and park a car.

Baci - unfortunately, the urban planning program you referenced is on the Twin Cities campus and those students would be unlikely to take on a project up here. To my knowledge, there is no urban planning program at any of the 3 local universities.

Now we're talkin .. what? students crafting a student focused area the intentionally integrates? Mr. Lambert, I think we've found your endowment legacy.

Here is what students want:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/22/living/dorm-rooms/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I'm also surprised that when they did re-do Woodland Ave, that they didn't put in some sort of crossing at that time as Mayor Ness mentioned, and make it mixed use, but it is what it is.

As a 20+ year resident, I have walked and biked from my house (off 19th/18th) to Mt Royal many times, not so much in winter - or just walked to the corner of Woodland/24th and caught a bus to Mt Royal or back if hauling groceries and/or books, and never felt unsafe. My kids walked/rode bikes to Holy Rosary and East (as well as to Chester Bowl) with no dramas. Aside from not enough bike racks in the area at the shopping centers (and downtown, although there are more downtown since they've installed the art ones). Plus, more bike lanes throughout the city and especially these neighborhoods would be very good.

I'd also prefer to see some new little restaurants with the international foods as mentioned by Iron Oregon above, or something like this little gem on a corner(it's literally on a little corner and has some outdoor seating), but not chains. Something could fit into the old Video Vision and that corner with the now-dead gas station (like the Dominos did across the street), perhaps a little ethnic takeaway/drive-thru, or with limited seating.

Also for many years I had hoped for a bar/pub (hole-in-the-wall/burger joint -- Anchor/Big Daddies-style sort) in the Mt Royal or Kenwood Shopping Centers (only Subway/Hardee's/Arbys/Peak Bagel (and whatever it keeps morphing into)/Erbs & Gerbs - which are good too - for kids and jobs) as the businesses came and went - but nope. We did get Bixby's, then Sara's Table (not cheap/a pub - but good for what it is), and Burrito Union (I totally miss when Taste of Saigon was up here), both walking distance for me - but the area could easily hold/support two/a few more in Mt Royal and in Kenwood - again, I'd much rather see hole-in-the-wall/mom-n-pop/ethnic sorts of neighborhood pubs/restaurants than chains.

I've also always thought they should use the space at Old Main vs letting it sit there - make UMD housing (using the idea of students without cars as mentioned above, as it's walking/riding distance/near the bus line, and/or for older/grad students *not freshmen/sophomores* - students who are quieter/more focused and want the convenience of campus housing vs a rental house), and incorporate the historical part in some way as well.

Duluth and these neighborhoods have so many possibilities, yet everything always seems focused on DT or Canal Park, and is poorly or seemingly not at all planned - as in everything is an afterthought. Oh we shoulda ...  And, so many of the empty businesses should be filled/converted long before building more new.

The idea of the students working things out as a part of their schooling/internships/grad school, etc., as Baci mentioned, is also a great idea - and should be utilized more. A win-win for sure.

(So much more could be done in/from West Duluth out to Fond-du-Lac to grow that area too, as well as the Hillside, but those are for other posts.)

PS - for those wanting an REI - aren't all the current outfitters/sporting goods stores (many local, not chains) in the area enough? Is it just for the climbing wall? Memberships? I'm curious.

Add to that, I don't spend money at Gander ... it's a waste of time going up the hill, and Northwest Outfitters might be cheaper on some items, but the sales tax gets you.

So to answer your question: yes, but...

Trailfitters is my go-to shop. It's quick and convenient, and the folks there are hella helpful! That said, however, there are really only one or two shops that I would consider spending my money. Trailfitters is one, and the other being Duluth Pack.

REI gives me dividends on the stuff I buy there every year.

Don't get your hopes up. Trader Joe's is probably not gonna happen.

Ah OK, thanks Zra. Maybe ask Trailfitters to order in the gear (as you're probably not the only one interested) and/or to start a dividend program similar to REI's -- which could be a win-win for all and keep their loyals running off to REI. 

Yeah Big E&B, that diner is about the same size as the Cuban place in the cities. Actually, it almost looks a little bigger than Victors.

If Trailfitters was to operate its business like a cooperative similar to REI, it would have done so already. 

I have been an REI customer since living in Seattle back in the early 1990s, and I trust its customer service, selection and prices. I generally tend to remain loyal to the brands/retail outlets that give me the best service and selection. Both REI and TF have done exactly that.

Anyhoo ... back to the issue at hand: surely a more centrally located center of social activity would benefit both Duluth and UMD enormously, though I have noticed a shocking dearth of coffee houses in this city.

Can we manage new development and student services without trashing local neighborhoods?  Lots of universities...the U of M Twin Cities included, have had to deal with neighborhood decline in Dinkytown type neighborhoods, which caused dangerous living situations for students and long term residents alike.  Programs had to be developed and funded to encourage homeowners to invest and live in university neighborhoods to create stability.  It's important and prudent to keep a good mix of resident owners alongside student development to keep the neighborhoods safe and habitable.  New restaurants/shops can be great for everyone.  The goal should be to avoid trashing the neighborhoods along the way.