How is it that everyone has missed the point that it isn't finished?

I used to live on that corner. If I still did I'd like to think I'd be indifferent about the mural.

... and unpainted moldy cement looks better because?

Hotshot, 

Dan is continually improving his property. Right now, tenants include a professional pilot, a public defender for St. Louis county, an Internet tech. professional, etc. None of us are indifferent to the "mural."

The central hillside gets yet another blow.

Detroit comes to Duluth.

Looks like an improvement to me.

Interestingly, that wall has remained free of graffiti. 

Until now.

Say what you will about the mural, the Spock picture makes it all worthwhile.

I, too, feel bad for the kids that were involved, but I would not want to have to look at that on a daily basis.  It looks like really bad graffiti.  Aside from it not looking good, I have two other objections.

First, I think it sends a mixed message to children to expect them to respect private and public property and then have them paint a public wall.  The same behavior will get them picked up by the police when they're teenagers.  The "sometimes it's o.k. and sometimes it's not" is a difficult concept for kids to understand.

Second, my view of a park in an urban setting is of a place to enjoy nature.  It provides a break from traffic, buildings, signs, noise, and the graffiti that can dominate life in a city (even a small city like Duluth).  Parks are places for trees, flowers, benches, perhaps walking paths.  I certainly don't mind art in a park, but it should add to the natural setting, not be a reminder of the city life surrounding you.  Granted, the concrete wall is not natural and not attractive, but if that was the issue, then put some trellises in front of it and plant some climbing vines and flowers.  Of course, others may have a different opinion of what a park should be...

Finally, I applaud the efforts to have a community event that brings people together.  I just think this one was misguided, and based on the outcome, not planned well.

My grassroots neighborhood organization has obtained a permit to paint murals in the Rose Garden, Kelso Park, Washington Square, and Brighton Beach.

We don't have a plan or template. We're just going to let 5 year old kids paint whatever they want. Then we'll find some way to tie it all together later, thus creating unity in the community.

"May I just observe that graffiti/'mural' painting is not generally attractive? Unless you are Bansky or Shepard Smith? Which these children are not?" 

Observe? So, you are the expert in this matter? Maybe if we all try real hard, we can make this mural controversy as big as Guernica!

Now Guernica would be all right.  However, comparing Picasso's painting, in opposition to a terrible war, to this 'mural' is a bit of a stretch.  If you think the quality of this mural is equal to Picasso, well okay.  I don't.

True, and I actually love kid art on a person's fridge.  Graffiti, however, is ugly to me, no matter who does it, even cute kids.
But to each his/her own.

I'm curious to know if this much bitching would be happening if the mural were in Canal, on the side of the Miller Hill Mall or elsewhere?

This park is city property in a part of town that could use a splash of color and some fun. The Hillside gets a bad rap all the time, now that the kids of the neighborhood are given a chance to have some fun and explore a medium they may have never experienced before, it's still considered negative. 

I also don't think claiming the kids will be confused and take up tagging as they get older is a valid argument.

Not content to make his juvenile point in the comments here, vicarious has a new post that's even stupider. But I can't comment there, so I said it here.

I hope they do paint the lighthouse, and soon. It could be heralded as a resounding protest against our never-ending congressional baffoonery. Maybe the next topic should be what else we can do to combat Grey Duluth?  A statue of Spock is a great start. Relenting East End Prohibition is surely tied for first.   I hear Woodbury has strict laws forbidding the use of color, I guess folks could just move there if they need more asinine in their bowl of shit biscuits, if life in the Norwegian Riviera isn't grey enough for them already.  Two words, Degrazia Museum.

I'll just add this, to clarify.

The point of my Brighton Beach, etc. comment seemed obvious: This mural - and the process that created it - would never have happened in other Duluth neighborhoods. That's the bottom line. But because this is "the ghetto," there is apparently no need for larger oversight, community input, or proper planning. 

I and my neighbors are not opposed to a mural on the Cascade Park wall. We just would've liked - again - oversight, input, and planning, of which there was none. 

Secretseasons, your usage of the terms "juvenile" and "stupid," and your personalization of the matter, belie a lack of genuine and useful participation in the debate. It does not become you.

Finally (and this is the last I'll say about the whole dang matter), my hilarious and informative post about the Canal lighthouse mural project was hilarious and informative.

Hot Shot:  You need to start a new thread on that subject, quickly add a couple of your own clever and pithy remarks and then close comments right away.

Vicarious is hilarious and informative.

Nor did your lighthouse thread. If one can exaggerate, can't we all? Obviously you want to stir the pot. I want to stir back. 
And it still seems that the fact the the "result" isn't the final result isn't being addressed.

Re-read my lighthouse thread. It is a direct comparison. I do not want to stir any pot. I want people to discuss why such a flawed process occurred. 

If I have an idea - say, painting a mural on public property like the lighthouse - wouldn't there be a reasonable expectation that my idea would be receive scrutiny in terms of overall need, appropriate elements and design, and approval by a committee that represents a wide swath of the public?

That is what I want discussed: Why did this not happen in Central Hillside when it would surely happen everywhere else. If that is stirring the pot, I'm flailing here.

I understand the mural is not finished. But I fail to see what could be done to make it coherent, attractive or something that benefits and unifies the community.

RhetoricGuy,

Thanks for your thoughts. You should come take a look personally and tell us what you think. Does it improve the park or neighborhood? My opinion is that it does not. Some other type of mural could've.

I agree that NHS should've known better. They are a great organization that does really important work.

As per closing comments: I originally closed them on the other thread because I was trying to simply make a point without engaging in arguments. They are now open.

I do not enjoy engaging in arguments with strangers online. It doesn't feel good. However, PDD is a great place for debate under certain context. 

For instance, as a city, do we give all of our citizens equal voice as to what happens in there neighborhood? If not, why? Are the processes for things such as public art projects the same everywhere? If not, why?

From the DPAC website:

"Mission Statement: To support public art as a community investment by preserving and promoting in public places, and to support public art activities that benefit the citizens of Duluth; to encourage partnerships that further the awareness of beauty in our community and to support our city's environment through public art."

Appropriately vague, I guess. The one part that strikes me in relation to this circumstance is "...further the awareness of beauty in our city...". In the Cascade case, a mural that celebrated the inherent beauty of the park and its view of the lake would've been great.

....

secretseasons, it's getting tiresome. If you don't want to be involved in the discussion, or don't WANT the discussion, just stop reading. Please. You will not be able to offend me or discourage this discourse.

An interesting question was posed: If this particular project is acceptable and encouraged, why not allow it in every other park?

There's a part of me that wants to consider this unintentional stereotyping; that is, if this were planned in, say, Congdon or Glen Avon, this project wouldn't make it past the first spray can cap being cracked open before the neighbors went batshit psycho.  That said, if you want to create "art" in someone's neighborhood, there should probably be some sort of consensus amongst the neighbors as to what constitutes acceptable "art." My guess is that since this neighborhood is where it is, there wasn't any thought given to public sentiment.

Finally, if you want to perpetuate a positive image and clean up a crime-troubled neighborhood (like the Central Hillside has been trying to do for nigh on thirty years now), a graffiti-esque mural in an out-of-the-way park definitely isn't the best way to go about it.

Thanks, secretseasons. I am reasonable... Good to know you are, too. I think ( and I'm glad) that we're boiling the whole shebang down to a flaw in the process, which created a flaw in the execution.

 I lived and owned property in marginalized neighborhoods here and in MPLS, so I have experience with efforts to revitalize which only cause the opposite. In the long-suffering Elliot Park/North Phillips neighborhood, the only thing that finally made a difference was intense policing and huge private investment. It's an entirely different neighborhood now. Unplanned murals simply do not help a struggling neighborhood.

Back to the point, per BoB's input: just like North Phillips in MPLS used to be, the Central Hillside is essentially a containment zone, where social services are concentrated and an "allowable" measure of street crime takes place without enforcement. NHS projects such as the mural, while nobly intended, have zero chance of affecting residents in a positive manner given the entrenched attitudes, policies, and biases inherent in the "system."

So, as we dig through this whole mural mess, we are unearthing deeper flaws and discrepancies in our urban society.

Am I alone in my bewilderment that one would complain of a lack of "community inolvement" in an artwork that was created by the community?

Interesting.  Good conversation so far.  

While it may be true that people need to be dragged to public meetings, it is also true that people need to know about public meetings in order to be dragged.

I'm reminded of the parcels of land that recently sold on Skyline Drive for something like $4,000 each -- because announcement of the sale was not widely made.  See http://topics.areavoices.com/2011/07/28/skyline-land-sale-followed-rules-neighbors-say-they-will-ask-duluth-city-council-to-block-sale/ _I_ would have bought those parcels at that price, and I'm sure a lot of people in Duluth would have thought the same.  

The DNT, which for years as served as the unofficial/official channel of communication between the city and the public, may not be working anymore in that capacity, entirely -- it reaches some critical population, but not the whole of the community the way it used to.  (I don't know that NHS used the DNT, btw -- this is just conjecture.)

Perfect Duluth Day is one way to reach a lot of folks... and while some of us get the DNT (I get Sundays because I want there to be at least a weekly paper in town), not all of us do.  I'd hope NHS would have recognized the public relations value of announcing this event, of publicizing the planning process -- of making a big deal out of what is surely a big deal!

Frankly, had NHS used this to its full PR advantage all the way through, it would both have avoided this conflict AND made a lot of press for them -- win/win?

If you look at one of the previously posted pictures, it wasn't very representative of the "community," unless the demographics of the Central Hillside now mirror those of Cabrini-Green.

Thank you WildGoose. You said it far better, and with more diplomacy, than I could have.

I was only making an observation based on the picture posted in another thread, and comparing the demographics of said picture to a neighborhood of similar demographics--neither of which represent the demographics of the Central Hillside.  I'm not passing judgment on anyone.  Just making an observation.  Apparently, one must preface all references to race with some sort of positive commentary in order to avoid being labeled "racist" or "classist."

Knee-jerk reactionaries, you are.

I feel there are other things to complain about. Maybe the state of the street on 2nd Ave. east. And lots of other streets, and jobs. 
Duluth just loves to complain. Myself included.

That would be the classic definition of the word "diversity," ss.

I judge people based on their character.  Diversity labels people based on demographics.  So yes, I'm not a huge fan of diversity in the sense that I choose to be colorblind in my dealings with others.

I'm not going to dive into the angry mob regarding the Cascade Park mural, but I have to agree with rhetoricguy. That photo should be on a calendar!

Flash Gordon, Ming Alert
It will never be finished.
How could anyone resist not adding some more 
chaos to it.

I walked past this mural the other day and all those bright colors made me smile.  How could anyone react otherwise?

Full disclosure: My own children left their marks on that wall.  One painted a stick figure; the other painted a tree with an owl perched on a limb. We had moved here from Maine just three weeks prior to the great debate.  A neighbor suggested the project as a way to introduce us to the community.  The professional artists were there, handing out paintbrushes, smocks, and smiles.  What a great welcome.  Thank you, Duluth.  Thank you Artists!

The meetings at DPAC (Duluth Public Arts Commission)  where interesting. Not one person came to voice opposition to the project, despite many of the most prominent vocal critics being specifically invited. And I gotta tell you, if you want something actually done in local government you can't constrain your complaints to the internet, you have to present them in a rational cognizant manner to those charged with making decisions. The lack of opposition is at least one small part of why the project is continuing post haste. 

TBH, the proposed sketches, for phase II, approved so far look really great, that is 3/5 of the entire wall. The remaining 2/5ths are due this Friday and DPAC will weigh them seriously. I actually have high hopes that the finished project will be stunning.