Do Lutherans still adhere to the Augsburg Confession?

Have you felt confused about what it means to be a Lutheran today? Are you concerned about the direction of the Lutheran church? Do you yearn for the vibrant faith of yesteryear?

Come hear a review of the first 21 articles in the Augsburg Confession on Saturday, April 9. Pre-registration is suggested.

The presentation by Pastor David Norland will be from 10-11:30 a.m. at New Life Lutheran Church. The church meets at 4424 Venture Avenue in the Duluth Airpark. Light refreshments will be available.

The Augsburg Confession is the formative document of the Lutheran church, and will serve as the tool for measuring whether Lutherans today are faithful to the Lutheran Reformation. The review will clarify any confusion about what it means to be Lutheran.

New Life is a Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ church. LCMC is an association of congregations and individuals who are free in Christ, accountable to one another, rooted in the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions, and working together to fulfill Christ’s Great Commission to go and make disciples of all nations. New Life is a gospel-centered church that preaches the gospel and not politics.

Call the church office at 740-3597 to pre-register.

26 Comments

dbrewing

about 13 years ago

Are gay people welcome? Or do you just reject gays as clergy?

Done with it

about 13 years ago

I am much happier having given up on Lutheranism all together. Good luck with all that pointless dogma. Making disciples of all nations is the worst kind of imperialism, though I'm sure you mean well.

Steven

about 13 years ago

I think it could be interesting! I am thinking of attending; too few people take the time to learn about the whos/whats of their theology.  Maybe it is time for me to learn a little more, too.

TimK

about 13 years ago

Some advice for KingdomKid:  When you post a piece like this, you can prevent the heathen hoards' mockery by clicking on the "closed comments" thingy....just sayin'

dbrewing

about 13 years ago

No it's smarter to allow comments, if they had been turned off I would have turned my question into a post thereby drawing more attention to it.

edgeways

about 13 years ago

Do you yearn for the vibrant faith of yesteryear?


In general the Lutheran church is hemorrhaging. In part because too many, but not enough, of it's members "yearn for the vibrant faith of yesteryear." The faiths and ideologies that continue to mire themselves too deeply in yesteryear will wither and become pale shadows of their former selves. The way forward is not to encrust oneself in dusty justifications, but to admit mistakes and forge new and relevant social ties. In a decade or two the Lutheran church is either going to radically change, or be a lot smaller. It is going to be smaller no matter what it does, but how small is dependent on how hidebound it remains.

TimK

about 13 years ago

You realize there's more than one denomination of Lutherans, right? The old Missouri Synod are the hellfire and brimstone gang, the ALC (not sure if they are still called that) are the more "liberal" and the LCMC who are more into evangelizing...

Jim

about 13 years ago

The Lutheran Church is "hemorrhaging" because they have chose not to take a stance. The new liberal mentality is chasing away the foundation of the membership in favor of a new-era secular based mentality that embraces homosexuality. This will cause a split that will lead to pro-homosexual congregations becoming a bastardization of the denomination, much like the Episcopals. The majority, who understand the consequences of such actions, will form stronger communities that will ignore the barrage of pressure and lead the protestant movement to a healthier future, free of sexual perversion.

Dim

about 13 years ago

I love Jesus, but in a gay way

B-man

about 13 years ago

Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers.

— Jesse Ventura, Former MN Governor

edgeways

about 13 years ago

Sure I realize different denominations are handling it differently. The denoms that are more Conservative may have an easier time of keeping their congregations, but they are also the denoms that tend to be older and will have a harder time recruiting replacements as their congregation passes away. I think the more liberal denoms(paradoxically) are the ones where you are going to see a lot of flight from as the parishioners seek out churches that take a more firm stance on equal rights.

wildgoose

about 13 years ago

As a person of faith, I appreciate that this was posted here and hasn't been defaced. (except a little by some of the people who are apparently in support of the Lutherans, the old-timey ones, anyway.)  I think the criticism that is here is valid and should be welcomed.

I didn't really *like* that quote from Ventura, years ago, but today I think I might agree with it.  Not sure I agree with the sentiment behind it because I don't know where he was coming from for sure.  

The problem with organized "religion" is that you take what I consider to be a perfect God, and get that perfection caught up in human institutions. Inherently imperfect. And people sometimes, too often end up relying on the institution instead of the God it was created to worship. 

I wish the Lutherans (whichever synod) luck, I think it's good to reconsider their positions on things.  Lutherans have done much good in this world, certainly some damage, too. But again I wish them well.  I must caution that like Luther himself, they are never going to entirely agree with the path ahead however, because it's organized religion.  And it is a human institution.   That's the value of direct communion with God through prayer, reading the sacred texts, meditation and meaningful study/conversation in small groups about beliefs, questions and attitudes.  Cut through the hoopla, the baggage and the potential heresies and false paths and just try to connect directly, alone or in groups of twos, threes and fours.  There is a reason Jesus picked 12 apostles.  One reason is that if he'd had 120, 500, or a 1,000 they'd never be able to see past their disagreements and get anything done!

dbrewing

about 13 years ago

I want my question answered. I you want to start an anti-gay church, well, that is your right, but you should be up front about it. What are you afraid of?

dbrewing

about 13 years ago

So once again I ask kingdomkid, are gays welcome or do you just reject them as clergy?

Steve

about 13 years ago

You didn't ask me, but I thought I would share this.  I am assuming that you really want an answer and are not just trying to stir the pot).

Source: http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/denominations/lutheranism.htm

Social/Ethical Issues

Lutheran churches vary in their perspective on homosexuality and their response to homosexuals in the church. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS) "believes that the Bible teaches that homosexual behavior is contrary to God's Word and will, and seeks to minister to those who are struggling with homosexual inclinations." 

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) has not defined its position officially, but has been conducting a study of the issue in recent years. Its current policy is to welcome homosexual persons to participate fully in its congregations and to encourage open conversations about the issue. The ELCA ordains homosexuals to church positions, with the understanding that they will remain celibate outside of marriage like all ministers.10 The ELCA does not currently bless same-sex marriages.

Bad Cat!

about 13 years ago

I love how people can condem gays because the bible says so, and then still eat shrimp & lobster. If you're going to play the "cuz the bible sez" game, you have to play by the rules!
http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

wildgoose

about 13 years ago

Well, there is an Old Covenant (actually a few) and a New Covenant.  Without going into the gory details, basically the "New Covenant" begins on the first Good Friday, which we commemorate in a few weeks here.  

Shrimp is not covered under the new covenant, in fact Jesus specifically yammered some critics into silence at least once on the issue of "food laws."  Later, St. Paul covered the same topic with circumcision, basically they want hearts, not necessarily bodies to be circumsized.  That said, I stayed clear of shrimp (bottom feeder) for several years but then I was out last week and there was this $10shrimp dish ... 

Re: Gays, the "New Covenant" still prohibits homosexuality, although there is valid debate about it. I have struggled with this.  Grappled with it. People talk about wrestling with God and I have wrestled on that one, to be sure.  It does come off as SO hypocritical.  For BadCat!, a better example might be someone who opposes "gays" and yet still looks at a woman with lust in his/her heart.  As in, have you salivated over the new receptionist or even the new Sports Illustrated ... Bam, sinful.  That's adultery under the new covenant.  I'm pretty sure most churches ordain people who have the random adulterous thought, or who eat shrimp.  BadCat, you are correct in asserting that hypocrisy is a huge issue in matters of faith and especially "dogma," and people of faith need to stare it in the face, acknowledge it and respond to it rather than run.  Truth brings a lot of freedom with it.  

---

Too bad Ironic1 has been scarce on lately, I'd love to hear his 2 cents.

B-man

about 13 years ago

@ Bad Cat! I like to bring up this argument with the protesters at civic events holding the "anti" signs.  

I also ask them to rectify the "thou shall not kill" commandment and the justification of war using GOD and his philosophy as the reason that we are on the right side.  No one has given me an answer that is satisfactory.  

Spiritualism is personal, religion is a business.  I don't need a board of directors telling me how to worship. This is why there is a large attrition rate among most organized religions in this country.  Money in the root of all evil? well the Catholic Church certainly loves to collect evil.

B-man

about 13 years ago

George Carlin sums it up pretty good.

dbb

about 13 years ago

Keep in mind that if people didn't periodically question the doctrine of the church all Christians would be Catholic. 

A schism is coming in the largest Lutheran denomination (ELCA) and the heart of it are social issues such as treatment of homosexuality. 

It's irrelevant to me. Organized religion is in decline in this country and frankly I look forward to the day it is the withered husk it is now in Europe.

jessige

about 13 years ago

@wildgoose -- One point about the new covenant.  The only word that we have on homosexuality in the New Testament is from Paul, not from Jesus.  In fact, many of the interpretations we have of the new covenant come from Paul, who never had first-hand interaction with Jesus (at least not in the physical sense).  So depending on your point of view, it could be true that all of the Leviticus rules are null and void through the new covenant, and the homophobia that some Christians still exercise is not Christian but Pauline instead.

Just food for thought.  Kind of why Jefferson cut up his bible, I suppose.  If the topic is interesting to anyone, I would recommend reading "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ" by Stephen Mitchell.  

(I told my mom that comparative religion degree would come in handy someday.)

church lady

about 13 years ago

To clarify - here is information from the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America)web site:
"What does the social statement say about homosexuality?
It states that the ELCA is opposed to all forms of violence or discrimination against homosexuals and is committed to welcoming all people, regardless of sexual orientation, and their families into our congregations. On the matter of whether or how to regard lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships, the social statement describes several broadly representative positions that members in this church hold. It acknowledges that these follow from strongly held different understandings of Scripture and tradition. The statement recognizes that these differing understandings will continue to exist among ELCA members and it affirms the possibility of living together in continued discussion despite our disagreements. We can do this by drawing deeply on the historical Lutheran tradition of respecting the other's conscience and seeking a caring response to the needs of the neighbor."
I believe that the church that is sponsoring this forum is being created because they do not agree with this statement.  It is complex, but the bottom line is that there is not just one brand of lutheran and so there needs to be caution in lumping them altogether.

wildgoose

about 13 years ago

+1 The ELCA when they say:

"[The social statement] affirms the possibility of living together in continued discussion despite our disagreements."

Read the bible sometime, the gospels, and the letter of Paul and basically the whole book and people are peppered with accounts of arguing and nitpicking all the way through.  This is nothing new.  The God if that book understands how we humans are and loves us ... whatever is defined as sin or not (good points, Jessige,) there is a path out of condemnation.  Any Christian that forgets that, or tries to build a "church" around ignoring that central tenet of Christianity is a heretic, and a sinner, IMO, but I'll let God be the judge of that ...  Whew, I got heated up on my soapbox, there.

KingdomKid

about 13 years ago

I apologize for the tardy response to the initial question posted; please forgive me as I'm new to the world of blogging.  This event is about the Augsburg Confession, not the social statements issued by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA).  Anyone who is interested in reviewing this foundational document(AC) is welcome to attend.

jessige

about 13 years ago

Perhaps KingdomKid could solve this whole question by letting us know what synod, if any, New Life Lutheran belongs to.  

@wildgoose, absolutely.  It's the old "hate the sin, but not the sinner."  And it's up to you to define what "sin" is, as dictated by your understanding of the texts and your relationship with God.  Unfortunately, lots of people don't put a whole lot of thought into those definitions and let others do their thinking for them (i.e. that idiot whose church protests at military funerals and that other idiot who burned the Quran in FL).

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