Email
[email protected]

Mail
Office of Governor Scott Walker
115 East Capitol
Madison WI 53702

Phone
(608) 266-1212

I think it's a great logo...but I do wish they hadn't given everything north of Highway 8 the Brigadoon treatment.  It's like our part of the map is one step removed from being covered in drawings of sea serpents and warnings that "here be dragons"...

This thread will probably be a magnet for Tea-Baggers regurgitating the Faux News Kool-Aid they've been swilling. Authoritarians hate unions because they have a democratizing effect in the workplace. Heaven forbid!

Yeah!

@DSorenson. Democratizing effect?! That's priceless! Nothing like mandatory enrollment in a group that you want nothing to do with. I'll be laughing about that one for a while -- literally one of the funniest things I've ever read. Almost as funny as listening to Al Gore talking about global warming!!!

If I lost my legs, should I demand that no one else be allowed to walk?

"History is a great teacher. Now everyone knows that the labor movement did not diminish the strength of the nation but enlarged it. By raising the living standards of millions, labor miraculously created a market for industry and lifted the whole nation to undreamed of levels of production. Those who attack labor forget these simple truths, but history remembers them."  
      - Martin Luther King Jr.

B-man...the union workers have already agreed to concessions that the Governor says he needs to balance the budget.  Unfortunately, the Governor is taking this a step further by stripping them of their right to form a Union.  This is unnecessary and unfair...he should be a TRUE leader and compromise like one.

Walker exempted law enforcement from the cuts (they endorsed him) and is bought and paid for by the Koch brothers.

Oh, and Jim, there is no DFL party in Wisconsin.  Think about it; do a little research; you might figure this one out.  If not, ask one of the protesting teachers, and thank them once they explain.

Hmmmm. So that whole "democracy" thing ain't so much fun when you're not on the winning side?

[pops more popcorn and cracks another beer while watching the whole delicious and absurd spectacle]

Excellent retort!

[crunch,crunch. popcorn needs more salt.]

I have a few questions that I'm having a damn hard time getting answered. Left or right or center, I'm disappointed in the media right now. Can you do better?

1. Why are a few unions exempt? I've heard that fire and police not having collective bargaining would be "dangerous." What the hell does that mean?

2. If this measure is for the biennium starting next biennium, why would Walker start firing employees immediately?

3.How does getting rid of collective bargaining save money? Does anyone understand what bargaining in good faith means? If Walker wants to get rid of the unions, why doesn't he just say it?

4. Has anyone done a poll in Wisconsin on the issue? Can I get some people to help me in doing one?

The "exempt" unions are those that endorsed Walker during the campaign. At least one has since publicly said they regret the endorsement.  The threats to fire people before the next biennium are real threats to those whose jobs are on the line, but you are right -- it's not about the budget. It is all about squashing the union. Getting rid of collective bargaining will only save money when you replace those workers with private contractors (who donated to Walker's campaign).

Nice poll.

A fun bit of info on the poll that Paul posted is that Fox News published the results of the poll during a segment ... except the results were reversed to show that 61% of Americans are opposed to collective bargaining. 

I guess if you don't like the stats, just switch 'em around. I'm sure some poor schmuck who's living paycheck to paycheck will use Fox's recreation to justify screwing his neighbor that's slightly better off. 

Fox Reverses Results Of Gallup Poll To Claim Americans Oppose Union Collective Bargaining Rights 

My thoughts on this whole deal are:

1: What is wrong with limiting the unions ability to get a raise above the consumer price index without a vote from the public? The public does pay their salaries and for their sweet benefits.

2: What is wrong about asking them to pay more for their benefits? They have already agreed to that much, so it isn't a big deal.

3: What is wrong with having the unions live by the same laws that protect the rest of us at our work places, instead of getting special representation? I've heard that losing those union reps. that can save their jobs when they might otherwise be fired is a huge part they are fighting for. If it is about bargaining pay, again see 1 and 2. 

4: Overall I see Unions as yes, in the past being neccesary to ensure workers rights, and get us the nice laws we have today. I fail to see how in today's USA they are neccesary, except to give certain groups more rights than others. I don't mind private Unions as much because they are a private group negotiating with a private employer, if they strike ect., that company gets hurt and no one wins. Public Unions can, like in WI currently, shut down the services we rely on them to provide. They are a Public group negotiating with officials they have major power in putting and keeping in office, creating a no win for the public they serve and get paid by if something happens they don't like. I am against the fire and police forces being exempt from the bill in WI as I feel that public unions should not be allowed to exist, and if they are limited to being unable to negotiate big pay raises unless approved by the public, not allowed to force members to pay dues, and pay a bigger chunk of their benefits. 
I've read a lot on this issue. I have a lot of family in public union jobs as well as friends, and they are all split down the middle. Roughly half support the bill in WI, roughly half don't, and there are a few who don't really care either way as long as they wouldn't lose their job. So please, don't go bashing on me saying get off the fox news kool aid or off the am dial. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. These are my thoughts on the subject and I'm open to polite discussion.

P.S. Paul, as to the poll you cited, further down in the same poll it also states that 46% feel that public unions are harmful, 45% feel they aren't. I'll try to link that Gallup poll and a Rassmusen poll as well on the subject so readers can get the full scoop.

Bob Dylan was on Fox news fighting for the unions! I hope he spilled his scalding coffee all over Glen Beck's genitalia.

Whoa Bman- easy does it. You're on thin ice pal. Soon any of your logical, original thoughts will be associated with crazies, because as we all know, there aren't any left leaning crazies... And Paul, thanks for the info. Just remember this next time any of us with an opposing view is called a tool, T-bagger, or any other off-color remark. Seems as though you have a double standard that's only applied to those with a right leaning viewpoint. I get it. It's your sandbox. It would be nice though if you shared the toys with everyone. Hmmm, kind of apropo considering what the unions want.

Here's the deal. The choking sound coming from the bunny huggers is the realization that someone is actually standing up to their antiquated strong arm tactics, causing their throats to swell and cause difficulty swallowing (pun intended). They are used to bullying people into their system of control and fiscal blackmail, and have no other intelligent way of dealing with the issues. Fire their ass. Get teachers who want to teach. Put politicians into office that understand what their responsibility is, and are willing to do their job, not run like a coward when faced with an opposing view point. Fire their ass and move onto the next subject. RIP unions. Your time has come, and is soon to be gone.

As someone who's worked for a soul-sucking and pocketbook-sucking corporation, to say we should all stoop down to the private sector level of insecurity while said corporations make profit off tactics to scare employees into submission and ridiculous concessions seems very naive. In 8 years, I saw my insurance co-pay, small potatoes, go from $10 a throw to paying 90 percent of the cost of the medical visit. All in the name of saving the company money as they demonized those greedy insurance companies. 

Yes, we have laws protecting us from the industrial age atrocities -- child workers, long hours, safety -- but there are new realities: forced furloughs, a phalanx of lawyers to spurn any attempt at fighting wrongful termination/accusations/cutbacks, and the thought that your world can be generally turned upside down any day by your employer. 

Sure, be jealous of unions, but fight the right fight in getting some of that security for yourself. 

I've heard the argument that there should be no leverage by state workers because the government isn't out to make a profit. Right on. But the state is out to do things on the cheapest level it can. Thus you need protections on the other side of the economic balance. 

Have unions overplayed in the past? Yes. And they should be swatted for it. But I'd hate to see a repeat of what Walker did in Milwaukee, turning union jobs over to private firms, who will only bid to make profit and have a lousy workforce as replacement. And then lawsuits and back pay that taxpayers foot.

I wince as much as anyone else when, say, I'm at a Billy Bragg concert and he goes off on the union talk. I'm there to hear music, damn it. But he said something last fall that stuck with me. The slippery slope he's seen in the UK the past five years with their own versions of Tea Party pols. He warned that we would see the same thing here, and the spoils all go to the corporate pocket. There is power in a union, not nearly as much as the corporations, but at least some leverage. Which side are you on?

Our power, on the private side, needs to be at the ballot box.

"Tea Bagger" = "Git R' Done" at this point.

Paul is pretty even-handed when it comes to pulling posts with name calling. Trust me- I called certain people fucktards and it was taken down in a very timely manner.

I also noticed my post has less a chance of being canceled if I have syntax error, then the English nerds can sit around and laugh. I got flustered being censored, then I dropped the grammar ball. Dammit!

Plus, I just fucked off another two hours in the Permuda Triangle, no wonder my kitchen remodel is going nowhere fast. To tie back into topic though, someone should spill coffee on that Walker guy.

Just for the record, it is 1.21 gigawatts, and 88 mph. One of my favorite movies, so hate to see it slaughtered like that.

Wes Scott said it. The rich and powerful are becoming richer and more powerful, and the rest of us are fighting amongst ourselves for the crumbs they're throwing us. Sad that some people are such dupes, they don't even get it. Public employees, unions, are *not* the enemy.

Lojasmo:  I thought you didn't listen to Maddow?  I don't get it.  Why are you using her producer's correction request to for what they debunked from what she said about what you said?  Especially since the correction request is based on something she said that they didn't include in their correction that you didn't include at all?

Sorry.  I know that was all messy.  I'm basing it all on your reply of "ahem".

Hey Berv- you can "close" your own thread anytime you like.

For Lojasmo, politifact's retort to Maddow's producer:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/feb/25/responding-rachel-maddow/