Do words, language and images matter?

I grew up with a father and friends who were hunters. Hunting is a way of staying connected to the land and procuring food,  at least that’s what it was when I was growing up. My father rented a meat locker, we ate venison, and Mom and I each got a leather coat, gloves and matching purses. Mine was a buckskin fringe jacket, the envy of my Minneapolis cousins.  I wore it for five years, then my brother wore it for another five years. One thing we did not do: Joke about guns or shooting someone.

The first time I ever heard Sarah Palin say, “Take aim and fire,” I thought it was extremely inappropriate. Teasing about shooting someone just isn’t funny.  Also I found the use of the phrase, “Don’t retreat, reload” inappropriate.   Upon hearing of the shooting violence against Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the others in Arizona yesterday I did an Internet search of her use of the words and commentary on it. The above image was on Palin’s Facebook page, but has now been removed.

Some say that Barack Obama had also used violent imagery and language with the phrase, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”  (Wall Street Journal’s Washington Wire Blog, June 14 2008)

Is either use of those phrases appropriate. Do you see any similarities or differences in the use of these phrases?

42 Comments

Sam

about 13 years ago

Extremist rhetoric can and does lead to irrational thinking.  Irrational thinking can lead to anything.

spy1

about 13 years ago

I think the difference is that Obama was referencing a movie line that overdramatizes the "Chicago way" of doing things. Maybe not a good choice, but at least there's that reference that keeps it sort of off the ratcheting-up meter.

The troubling thing about the Palin and others references is that I keep waiting for the tongue in cheek, the "but seriously" moment, and never hear it. These phrases just kind of hang out there and I'm sure with reason.

I think a better question is: What happened to people disenfranchised with the government shrugging their shoulders and saying "there's nothing I can do." I miss those days.

What changed? I think I know.

baci

about 13 years ago

Watch as the 24/7 news cycle feeds off the sacrifices it demands. We're ALL complicit (meaning me too) in prurient fascination with the dangerous margins. Subtlety does not glue eyes and freeze twitchy channel surfing thumbs through commercial breaks. Politicized Shooters are the new mooks. The question is, how far will we have to eat our own tail before we get sick on our own sh!t.

Paul Lundgren

about 13 years ago

From Bill Cosby's Himself album:

My mother said to me: "When your father gets home, he's going to shoot you in the face with a bazooka. And I'm not going to stop him this time, either. "You know, he's always wanted to kill you. The day you were born, he said, 'Kill it!' I stopped him from killing you for 11 years ... and this is the thanks I get for saving your life."
Appalling or funny? I have to lean toward funny. There is an opportunity with this shooting for all of us to take a closer look at the vehemence of our political rhetoric, but targeting Sarah Palin with blame is cruel and inappropriate. It's also a pretty unfortunate way of keeping a resigned governor and reality TV-show star relevant to politics.

hbh

about 13 years ago

Are you saying there isn't a difference between a comedian and a politician?

in.dog.neato

about 13 years ago

There's targeting the messenger, and then there's targeting the message. In this case we have a few sociopaths taking a bunch of what are presumably supposed to be metaphors for action very seriously, and literally, as in the case yesterday.

What these talking heads keep failing to realize is that there are a few sociopaths out there taking what are presumably supposed to be metaphors for action seriously, and literally.

Chris

about 13 years ago

If Palin's rhetoric is 100% ok and targeting her is inappropriate, why did she edit her Twitter page after the shooting?  If she's in the right here, why not stick to your guns?  I'm not blaming Palin and the other tea baggers for the action of one lone nut.  But to totally excuse their hate filled rhetoric doesn't sit well with me either.

Timk

about 13 years ago

Given the nature of our political discourse and the state of our so-called press, these kinds of statements by Glen Beck, Sarah Palin and their ilk are akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

Bad Cat!

about 13 years ago

I think it's just a bad idea to use weaponry terms that target a politician. Haven't we had enough presidents and potential presidents shot in the head?

so sad

about 13 years ago

There are some many things about the event here in the southwest yesterday that have my mind floating between infuriation and deep sadness. Will this event  be thrown into the political arena so both side can pick up there weapons and engage once again in the battle to convince there couch riding contingence to continue believing in the dualistic fantasy that there are borders between right and left and that fault lies with the other side. 

Or perhaps there can be a convenient agreement amongst the talking heads that this was the action of a "lone wolf". One who quite obviously is unstable and most likely seriously mentally ill. They can look at his ramblings in the you tube videos.  His tirades about currency, brainwashing, grammar and conscience dreaming are textbook symptoms of someone suffering from delusionary thinking and paranoia. So what? No big deal. Bring on some so called experts, have them dance around his unaddressed mental illness issues and label him a disgruntled failure at life. This way no one will have to consider making any changes to the things that are said or done by those in power or by the media that may have a effect on those with vulnerabilities, much less giving any consideration into deeply looking at what are the real motivations behind their actions.

Soon some celebrity will get caught cheating on their spouse or a beautiful starlet will show her "baby bump" on the red carpet of some overexposed  yet completely insignificant event.  A politician will make a foolish statement, a new reality show will come on the T.V. and a video of someone doing something totally asinine will go viral on the internet. We can engage in the distraction and quickly forget about what happen yesterday only to watch it happen again at some unknown date in the future.

Paul Lundgren

about 13 years ago

There are similarities and differences between politicians and comedians, but I would rank Sarah Palin closer to a comedian than a politician. What I think it boils down to, though, is the intention of the language. Obviously Sarah Palin did not want Gabrielle Giffords to be shot in the head, and obviously Bill Cosby's father did not want to literally kill him.

Wes Scott

about 13 years ago

It matters to some whack jobs that are out there and take things to a extreme. If you have a mental illness it doesn't take much.

edgeways

about 13 years ago

The overwhelming majority of people with mental illnesses are not violent, so the phrase "If you have a mental illness it doesn't take much." is a bit of a canard.

I'm not sure if assigning some of the blame to Palin et al is "cruel". Yeah, Palin might well not have wanted Giffords to have been actually shot, but the kid fooling around with his dad's gun and accidentally shooting his brother doesn't want that to happen either, and they are, to some degree, culpable. What you want to happen and what happens are often two different things, and they can both be your fault (to different degrees). 

Cosby's routine was presented in the context of humor, it is assumed with clear lines from the start what he is saying is not serious. Political speech should not be taken as literally as some do, but the lnes are much less clear. Especially when there is so much other violent-and-serious rhetoric wrapped up with it. "Water the tree of liberty with blood"
So while there are semantic parallels between humor and some political speech the contextual parallels are not as clear cut.

To be clear, I don't think Palin and Beck and such like can be held legally accountable in any fashion. But I do think it is possible that they ARE at least inadvertently culpable. 

Word. Have. Power.

Roland Thompson

about 13 years ago

1)  baci,
Please to not make sweeping generalizations about everyone.  I am not fascinated with the dangerous margins.  

2) Though I by no means like Sarah Palin, she cannot be held responsible for the actions of another.  The only way would be if she brainwashed him, which she didn't.  Thus, it is his fault for his insane actions.

3)  Yes, the media and political discourse could be in better condition these days: more civil, more sensible.  And yes, the shootings the other day suck.  Yet, I urge people to look at the state of political discourse and political news coverage in the 19th century.  Papers would literally misprint speeches by politicians they didn't like, just to convince their readers to think likewise.  Thus those readers would spread the falsehoods around, hurting their reputation and electability.  A good example of this being Lincoln's initial run for 1860.  

4) True, our congress as of recent has been pathetic, to understate.  Again, let us look to the 19th century though.  On 22 May, 1856 Congressman Preston Brooks beat Senator Charles Sumner with his walking cane on the Senate floor.  This is just one of many examples of wackery in the 19th century federal government: executive, legislative, and judicial all included.

5)  Modern times aren't nothing compared to the division and hate that caused a civil war.

Ruthie

about 13 years ago

Word have impact and create actions intended and unintended.  When combined with visuals such as above they have even more effect.  This is why all people speaking in the public domain should  be careful when they craft their messages.  This applies to politicians, news personnel and media 'entertainment' commentators.  Yesterday's events are tragic and a scary reflection of our times.

in.dog.neato

about 13 years ago

But we're not in the 19th century, Roland, and just because it's happened before, that doesn't mean it needs to continue. Modern times aren't nothing, as you say, but the seeds of division and hate we're seeing today are what started the civil war.

baci

about 13 years ago

@Roland - I am a margin. Not dangerous, but very much a margin. The fact you felt obliged to define yourself in the face of my perceived "sweeping generalization" could be viewed as confirmation that even those of us with copious gravitas, such as yourself, not only have prurient fascination but feel the need to action on it. My only point is that as a society we have handed over our conscious to those who drive, and profit from, the mass media. We better had talk about it .. teach out children about it .. lest we forever become it's slaves.

Sam

about 13 years ago

Bill Cosby's rhetoric is meant to be funny and light-hearted, and does not confuse people about the tough realities of family life.

Sarah Palin's rhetoric is supposed to fill people with anger and disgust, and is intended to confuse people about the realities of life.

Bill Cosby's rhetoric is unlikely to inspire the murder of one's own children.  Sarah Palin's and the tea party's rhetoric has inspired a lot of angry yelling, shoving, and downright irrational thinking.

Claire

about 13 years ago

When Sarah Palin was getting audiences all riled up at her rallies before the 2008 election, complaining about Obama "palling around with terrorists" and implying he isn't a "real" American, I was afraid some whackjob would do something like this. With such inflammatory rhetoric coming from this provocateur, it was only a matter of time some unbalanced person would do something like this. After all, there are 435 people in the House of Representatives, and 17 are in Sarah Palin's "crosshairs" in the map posted above by Naomi. The congresswoman shot yesterday is one of those 17 on that map.

Are people really suggesting this is merely coincidence?

OGDuluthian

about 13 years ago

Claire.....and you wonder why no one takes you and your comment seriously.

Timk

about 13 years ago

I take Claire seriously.

Lojasmo

about 13 years ago

I find Claire to be one of the more thoughtful participants here.

Claire

about 13 years ago

Thanks TimK and Lojasmo.

Sam

about 13 years ago

Dido what TimK and Lojasmo said.

Edek

about 13 years ago

OGDuluthian ... Old Guard Duluthian?

Edek

about 13 years ago

Giffords' 2010 Congressional opponent Jesse Kelly held a June 12 gun event that was billed as follows on the Pima County Republican website:

Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly

Kelly's website has apparently scrubbed the event , but here is the account from the Arizona Daily Star:

Jesse Kelly, meanwhile, doesn't seem to be bothered in the least by the Sarah Palin controversy earlier this year, when she released a list of targeted races in crosshairs, urging followers to "reload" and "aim" for Democrats. Critics said she was inciting violence.

He seems to be embracing his fellow tea partier's idea. Kelly's campaign event website has a stern-looking photo of the former Marine in military garb holding his weapon. It includes the headline: "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."

The event costs $50.

Sam

about 13 years ago

Ooops.  Dito or ditto, not Dido (although I like Dido's music).

ruby2sd4y

about 13 years ago

All it takes is for one unbalanced idiot to see a poster like that and decide it's their duty to make it happen.

Jeff P

about 13 years ago

It is amazing that most of you are claiming that Sarah Palin and her ilk are linked to this in some way. You sound like NPR reporting that the Congress Woman had been killed only to have to retract the story when the real facts in the story came out. Or, maybe you sound like Mayor Bloomberg and Katie Couric saying the Times Square bomber was linked to the tea party. Or, how about the Discovery channel shooter trying to be linked to the tea party.

Do we need a discussion on the tone of the conversation? Yes! but, I urge you not continue you the cycle.

in.dog.neato

about 13 years ago

We're not "linking" Palin and her ilk to this tragedy. We're linking the rhetoric she and her ilk use to this tragedy by way of the batshit crazy few out there who take her seriously.

The imagery and words (Don't Retreat, Reload. Crosshairs on a map, M-16s at fundraiser rallies) are what is out of step, and is overtly suggestive to the few among us who'd take that rhetoric and imagery to heart.

Edgewood already said it: words are power.

Dave Sorensen

about 13 years ago

Surely our endless wars abroad help set the tone for our violence at home. And in uncertain times the fearfull and ignorant Faux News viewers are sure to look for a strong-man to protect them. How long will it be before the bullies who distrupted the health-care town hall meetings start attacking those labeled "enemies" by Fox News? Propaganda does influence people or billions of dollars would not be spent on it. Caribou Barbie may not be responsible for inspiring these shootings, but the Tea Baggers sure seem to resemble the John Birch Society. They know they can't appeal to peolpe rationally so they whip these useful idiots into an emotional frenzy with talk of "taking away our guns" and "socialism", etc. Meanwhile corporate profits are at an all-time high, so this "socialism" must be working just fine for the 1% who own as much wealth as the bottom 90%. This is our Weimar Republic moment, America. Most of the world has seen through this bullshit and hopefully Americans will too.

spy1

about 13 years ago

This is a job for ... Alan Ginsberg.

America

America I've given you all and now I'm nothing.
America two dollars and twentyseven cents January
17, 1956.
I can't stand my own mind.
America when will we end the human war?
Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb.
I don't feel good don't bother me.
I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind.
America when will you be angelic?
When will you take off your clothes?
When will you look at yourself through the grave?
When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites?
America why are your libraries full of tears?
America when will you send your eggs to India?
I'm sick of your insane demands.
When can I go into the supermarket and buy what I
need with my good looks?
America after all it is you and I who are perfect not
the next world.
Your machinery is too much for me.
You made me want to be a saint.
There must be some other way to settle this argument.
Burroughs is in Tangiers I don't think he'll come back
it's sinister.
Are you being sinister or is this some form of practical
joke?
I'm trying to come to the point.
I refuse to give up my obsession.
America stop pushing I know what I'm doing.
America the plum blossoms are falling.
I haven't read the newspapers for months, everyday
somebody goes on trial for murder.
America I feel sentimental about the Wobblies.
America I used to be a communist when I was a kid
I'm not sorry.
I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses
in the closet.
When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made up there's going to be trouble.
You should have seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst thinks I'm perfectly right.
I won't say the Lord's Prayer.
I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still haven't told you what you did to Uncle
Max after he came over from Russia.
I'm addressing you.
Are you going to let your emotional life be run by
Time Magazine?
I'm obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week.
Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner
candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It's always telling me about responsibility. Business-
men are serious. Movie producers are serious.
Everybody's serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.
Asia is rising against me.
I haven't got a chinaman's chance.
I'd better consider my national resources.
My national resources consist of two joints of
marijuana millions of genitals an unpublishable
private literature that goes 1400 miles an hour
and twenty-five-thousand mental institutions.
I say nothing about my prisons nor the millions of
underprivileged who live in my flowerpots
under the light of five hundred suns.
I have abolished the whorehouses of France, Tangiers
is the next to go.
My ambition is to be President despite the fact that
I'm a Catholic.
America how can I write a holy litany in your silly
mood?
I will continue like Henry Ford my strophes are as
individual as his automobiles more so they're
all different sexes.
America I will sell you strophes $2500 apiece $500
down on your old strophe
America free Tom Mooney
America save the Spanish Loyalists
America Sacco & Vanzetti must not die
America I am the Scottsboro boys.
America when I was seven momma took me to Com-
munist Cell meetings they sold us garbanzos a
handful per ticket a ticket costs a nickel and the
speeches were free everybody was angelic and
sentimental about the workers it was all so sin-
cere you have no idea what a good thing the
party was in 1835 Scott Nearing was a grand
old man a real mensch Mother Bloor made me
cry I once saw Israel Amter plain. Everybody
must have been a spy.
America you don't really want to go to war.
America it's them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen.
And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power
mad. She wants to take our cars from out our
garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Readers'
Digest. Her wants our auto plants in Siberia.
Him big bureaucracy running our fillingsta-
tions.
That no good. Ugh. Him make Indians learn read.
Him need big black niggers. Hah. Her make us
all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is quite serious.
America this is the impression I get from looking in
the television set.
America is this correct?
I'd better get right down to the job.
It's true I don't want to join the Army or turn lathes
in precision parts factories, I'm nearsighted and
psychopathic anyway.
America I'm putting my queer shoulder to the wheel.
- Berkeley, January 17, 1956

SlingFade

about 13 years ago

I've got to say something here, so please bear with an alternative opinion:

The mere fact that people here are attempting to politicize this tragedy makes me want to vomit.

In an effort to avoid pigeon-holing this kid as a right-wing nutjob, I guess I will be the first to point out that the alleged shooter listed "Mein Kampf", "The Communist Manifesto", "Animal Farm" and "Fahrenheit 451" amongst his favorite books.....the first two clearly not being standard "tea party" reading material.  And the kid clearly isn't right in the skull, so how's about we stop blaming a website that this kid--odds are--never visited.   Speculating in order to make a point doesn't make for a convincing argument.  

How do you know that this isn't Joe Manchin's fault for firing a rifle through Democratic legislation during one of his campaign commercials?  Nah, couldn't be that, right Claire?  Get off your partisan high-horse, knock it off and stop being part of the problem. Use facts and not speculation and empty rhetoric.

Point is, nobody knows what set this kid off.  So roll up your "Jump to Conclusions" mats and stop with the blame game. 

I now return you to your irrational finger-pointing and Alaskan witch-hunting.

OGDuluthian

about 13 years ago

Thanks SlingFade for the intelligent perspective. I too want to vomit when I see all the people posting here with the intent to politicize this tragedy to further their own political agenda. 
Godspeed to all the victims and families affected.

Sam

about 13 years ago

#1. People shouldn't politicize this tragedy the way the Republicans politicized 9/11 to rush us into the Iraq War and the Patriot Act.

#2. Even though #1 is true, it is also true that radicalized rhetoric does radicalize people's behavior.  

A grasp of most any slice of world history is more than enough to prove this.  History is full of people who are told bizarre things (think Fox News and Tea Party rhetoric) and act on the resulting radical ideology.

Sam

about 13 years ago

Here is a good article on this.

Today Online: "A turning point in U.S. discourse"

"What is different about this moment is the emergence of a political culture - on blogs and Twitter and cable television - that so loudly and readily reinforces the dark visions of political extremists, often for profit or political gain. 

It was not clear Saturday whether the alleged shooter in Tucson was motivated by any real political philosophy or by voices in his head, or perhaps by both. But it is hard not to think he was at least partly influenced by a debate that often seems to conflate philosophical disagreement with some kind of political Armageddon."

Bad Cat!

about 13 years ago

Imagine if this political "hit list" wasn't made by Palin, but instead was made by a high-school student that marked the teachers he didn't like with crosshairs on it. He could claim that it was a list of the teachers he felt should be fired, but sure as hell the SWAT team would still be there to drag him away.

Some things are just not a good idea to do, no matter what your intent is.

Claire

about 13 years ago

This is rather repetitive of the excellent point that Bad Cat! just made, but I thought I'd post it anyways...

Michael Moore tweets: "If a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web w/crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he b sitting right now? Just asking."

W.T.F

about 13 years ago

Great sadness. No matter how we disagree, a Democracy cannot be run by acts of or fear of violence. That becomes Fascism. While I like my guns, I absolutely HATE gun nuts! No one needs a fully automatic weapon, no one needs a 30 round clip. That is nothing but trouble waiting to happen. As a general rule many problems come from too much time online, on the phone, texting, "social networking", and all around general "head up some digital screens ass 24 hour a day" life style and not enough time spent outdoors and exercising. And way too much prozac and other such drugs for young kids who need parents and real hobbies, not isolating online imaginary "realities" and amphetamines.
Whether or not Palin's gun analogies and  take aim etc. rhetoric had anything to do with this incident, it has no place what-so-ever in political dialogue. Anyone who lived through or remembers the assassinations of Medgar Evers, Malcom X, RFK, JFK, MLK, Harvey Milk, etc.should know better than to even make a sideways reference to guns, ammo, taking aim etc. Shame on those that do.

spy1

about 13 years ago

I stopped believing in "turning points" after we were told that, post-9/11, the fascination with junk in our culture and/or irony were goners. Seems it has come on even stronger.

SlingFade

about 13 years ago

@Sam: There you go again. The Dems politicized 9/11 right along side the Republicans. See: Clinton, Hillary; Kerry, John. Politically-motivated violence has been happening for millenniums, so please stop pretending this is some new trend that popped up with Palin and talk radio. 

@BadCat: Do you know that crazyshooterguy even saw that website? If he didn't, how is this even relevant to the story? Go ahead and keep jumping to conclusions.....this is exactly how we arrive at the unintelligent, inflammatory discourse that creates fear and loathing of opposing viewpoints.

Jeff P

about 13 years ago

Where were you when.................

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/

There are kooks on both side of every issue.

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