Comments on: Challenged Ballots in Minnesota http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=afternoon-killer Duluth Minnesota Blog and News Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:26:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Lojasmo http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31528 Lojasmo Sat, 04 Dec 2010 01:12:48 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31528 If one asks for a duplicate (I did, and was refused) the original ballot is numbered, and set aside, and both are saved. (I participated in both recounts.) If a ballot has an over or under marked race, that race is not counted ... except in the case of a recount. But if voter intent can be clearly determined, in the case of a recount, it shall be counted according to Minnesota law. If one asks for a duplicate (I did, and was refused) the original ballot is numbered, and set aside, and both are saved. (I participated in both recounts.)

If a ballot has an over or under marked race, that race is not counted … except in the case of a recount.

But if voter intent can be clearly determined, in the case of a recount, it shall be counted according to Minnesota law.

]]> By: Lojasmo http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31527 Lojasmo Sat, 04 Dec 2010 00:50:01 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31527 Jadiaz: you clearly have not read Minnesota law. The standards we have are inconsistent with your claims. Jadiaz: you clearly have not read Minnesota law. The standards we have are inconsistent with your claims.

]]> By: edgeways http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31523 edgeways Sat, 04 Dec 2010 00:19:46 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31523 *shrug* as has already been stated the standard is "clear intent", not "fuck you if you make a mistake". And yeah, dude, if you are going to advocate for strict interpretations, you may want to be a bit mindful of grammatical errors. I _am NOT_ saying you are stupid, but taken to the logical extension of your argument you, yourself, may have done so. *shrug* as has already been stated the standard is “clear intent”, not “fuck you if you make a mistake”. And yeah, dude, if you are going to advocate for strict interpretations, you may want to be a bit mindful of grammatical errors. I _am NOT_ saying you are stupid, but taken to the logical extension of your argument you, yourself, may have done so.

]]> By: Terry G. http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31512 Terry G. Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:59:29 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31512 I forgot my reading glasses when I voted this time. Maybe I was right to worry that I didn't precisely fill in the ovals. I forgot my reading glasses when I voted this time. Maybe I was right to worry that I didn’t precisely fill in the ovals.

]]> By: calk http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31503 calk Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:46:03 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31503 I was a ballot recount observer during the Franken-Coleman brouhaha two years ago. Bad Cat! is right, it's about voter intent. If a reasonable person can determine the voter's intent, that ballot should stand. People should not be penalized for making mistakes, changing their minds, or for disabilities. I shouldn't have to worry that if I don't fill in the oval perfectly and completely, that my ballot will be thrown out. Jadiaz, before you start going off at the mouth about how people should mark their ballots perfectly or be disenfranchised, perhaps you should be an observer (the official title is poll challenger) at your precinct or elsewhere. You'd witness the incredible variety of people coming in to vote -- some of them for the first time. And the polling place can be frantic at time, esp. b/c Minnesotans vote. It's not always easy for convenient for voters to say they screwed up and ask for another ballot, when there's a huge line of voters being helped already. I assume, to answer Todobrillante's question if you do request another ballot, that the judge would tear it up and give you another one. I remember someone leaving their ballot on a table after voting when I was a challenger a few years ago, and one of the election judges running out to find that person (they couldn't) -- so the ballot was destroyed. I was a ballot recount observer during the Franken-Coleman brouhaha two years ago. Bad Cat! is right, it’s about voter intent. If a reasonable person can determine the voter’s intent, that ballot should stand. People should not be penalized for making mistakes, changing their minds, or for disabilities. I shouldn’t have to worry that if I don’t fill in the oval perfectly and completely, that my ballot will be thrown out.

Jadiaz, before you start going off at the mouth about how people should mark their ballots perfectly or be disenfranchised, perhaps you should be an observer (the official title is poll challenger) at your precinct or elsewhere. You’d witness the incredible variety of people coming in to vote — some of them for the first time. And the polling place can be frantic at time, esp. b/c Minnesotans vote. It’s not always easy for convenient for voters to say they screwed up and ask for another ballot, when there’s a huge line of voters being helped already.

I assume, to answer Todobrillante’s question if you do request another ballot, that the judge would tear it up and give you another one. I remember someone leaving their ballot on a table after voting when I was a challenger a few years ago, and one of the election judges running out to find that person (they couldn’t) — so the ballot was destroyed.

]]> By: Bad Cat! http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31500 Bad Cat! Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:24:19 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31500 But state law does not require a ballot to be filled out 100% correct in order to be counted. Ballots that are unclear are reviewed and if voter intent can be determined, then it is counted. Voter intent is clear in <a href="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/balloty.jpg" rel="nofollow">this ballot</a> so it should count as a vote. Voter intent is not clear in <a href="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ballotx.jpg" rel="nofollow">this ballot</a> so it should not count as a vote. But state law does not require a ballot to be filled out 100% correct in order to be counted. Ballots that are unclear are reviewed and if voter intent can be determined, then it is counted.
Voter intent is clear in this ballot so it should count as a vote.
Voter intent is not clear in this ballot so it should not count as a vote.

]]> By: todobrillante http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31499 todobrillante Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:22:57 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31499 If you mess up while filling out your ballot can you request a new blank one and have the election judges recycle your mistake? If so, there's no reason for marking one, crossing it off, and then marking another...other than having too much pride to admit you f'd up and need a new ballot. If you mess up while filling out your ballot can you request a new blank one and have the election judges recycle your mistake? If so, there’s no reason for marking one, crossing it off, and then marking another…other than having too much pride to admit you f’d up and need a new ballot.

]]> By: Jadiaz http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31491 Jadiaz Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:58:25 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31491 Again I am not proposing an IQ limit. I'm satisfied with the standards we have. If you can't mark a ballot properly it doesn't count. You guys are the ones reading to much into my statements. If I mark my ballot wrong it shouldn't count. If a person has a disability, there are services to help them vote, if they still mark their ballot wrong, it shouldn't count. What is so complicated about not counting ballots with multiple marks? Again I am not proposing an IQ limit. I’m satisfied with the standards we have. If you can’t mark a ballot properly it doesn’t count. You guys are the ones reading to much into my statements. If I mark my ballot wrong it shouldn’t count. If a person has a disability, there are services to help them vote, if they still mark their ballot wrong, it shouldn’t count. What is so complicated about not counting ballots with multiple marks?

]]> By: Bad Cat! http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31489 Bad Cat! Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:44:56 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31489 Anyone else see the irony in this? "your not to intelligent" Keep in mind that many people voting could be from different areas that have different voting standards, may have English as a second language, may have Dyslexia or other learning disabilities that affect reading and comprehension, or honestly may have a low IQ. Do you want to be the one to propose an IQ limit for who has a say in representation and who doesn't? Reminds me a bit of the excuses used in the segregated south. Anyone else see the irony in this? “your not to intelligent”

Keep in mind that many people voting could be from different areas that have different voting standards, may have English as a second language, may have Dyslexia or other learning disabilities that affect reading and comprehension, or honestly may have a low IQ. Do you want to be the one to propose an IQ limit for who has a say in representation and who doesn’t? Reminds me a bit of the excuses used in the segregated south.

]]> By: Jadiaz http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31487 Jadiaz Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:04:37 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31487 I don't feel there needs to be a test to vote. There are already regulations in place for who is eligible. What my opinion is, is that if you can't mark your ballot correctly, your not to intelligent, and your vote doesn't count. Whether you are old, disabled, or plain stupid, there are several things in place to help you cast your vote correctly. If you don't take advantage of those things and mark the ballot wrong you have no one to blame but yourself. The examples above are not marked correctly and therefore should not be counted. It is the system in place and it works. I don’t feel there needs to be a test to vote. There are already regulations in place for who is eligible. What my opinion is, is that if you can’t mark your ballot correctly, your not to intelligent, and your vote doesn’t count. Whether you are old, disabled, or plain stupid, there are several things in place to help you cast your vote correctly. If you don’t take advantage of those things and mark the ballot wrong you have no one to blame but yourself. The examples above are not marked correctly and therefore should not be counted. It is the system in place and it works.

]]> By: edgeways http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31483 edgeways Fri, 03 Dec 2010 08:20:15 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31483 fwiw Jadiaz I was an election judge this past cycle, and the two previous as well, observing who comes in and votes, and watching them sign their name I'd wager large amounts of cash that stupidity isn't the underling factor in many of the making errors. Poor sight and hand tremors due to age or disability would account for the overwhelming majority of marking errors. Now, the question is, can YOU discern from the ballot who was stupid and who has low vision and thought they marked the ballot correctly? Additionally, opening the door to only allowing those above the certain bar of intelligence to vote is dicey at best... talk about what a government overreach that would be. fwiw Jadiaz I was an election judge this past cycle, and the two previous as well, observing who comes in and votes, and watching them sign their name I’d wager large amounts of cash that stupidity isn’t the underling factor in many of the making errors. Poor sight and hand tremors due to age or disability would account for the overwhelming majority of marking errors. Now, the question is, can YOU discern from the ballot who was stupid and who has low vision and thought they marked the ballot correctly?
Additionally, opening the door to only allowing those above the certain bar of intelligence to vote is dicey at best… talk about what a government overreach that would be.

]]> By: Bad Cat! http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31477 Bad Cat! Fri, 03 Dec 2010 04:20:06 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31477 I was randomly clicking around on a few ballots and just getting more and more pissed off. I decided to look at just one more, and am so glad I did! <a href="http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Morrison/Morrison_LittleFallsW1_2.pdf" target="blank" rel="nofollow">My Favorite Contested Ballot so far!</a> (the fun is on the second page) I was randomly clicking around on a few ballots and just getting more and more pissed off. I decided to look at just one more, and am so glad I did!

My Favorite Contested Ballot so far! (the fun is on the second page)

]]> By: Jadiaz http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31476 Jadiaz Fri, 03 Dec 2010 04:16:10 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31476 Hey Lojasmo, if you read my post I feel Emmer needs to stop the recounts because Dayton won. Voting is pretty easy and if you can't do it right your vote doesn't count. Pretty simple concept. Calling an entire group of people stupid for voting for a certain candidate doesn't make your position seem that great. You aren't swaying me to the Democratic side of the aisle by showing how tolerant and intelligent they are with your post. Hey Lojasmo, if you read my post I feel Emmer needs to stop the recounts because Dayton won. Voting is pretty easy and if you can’t do it right your vote doesn’t count. Pretty simple concept. Calling an entire group of people stupid for voting for a certain candidate doesn’t make your position seem that great. You aren’t swaying me to the Democratic side of the aisle by showing how tolerant and intelligent they are with your post.

]]> By: Rougement http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31474 Rougement Fri, 03 Dec 2010 03:59:22 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31474 Simple solution: a ballot may be challenged but if the challenge is deemed unsuccessful then a vote is removed from the challenger's tally. That should put an end to this kind of abuse. Simple solution: a ballot may be challenged but if the challenge is deemed unsuccessful then a vote is removed from the challenger’s tally.

That should put an end to this kind of abuse.

]]> By: Lojasmo http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31473 Lojasmo Fri, 03 Dec 2010 03:29:22 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31473 "Mark Dayton attorney Marc Elias says the Tom Emmer campaign has been “disrespectful” of the recount process with the thousands of ballot challenges it has made. Most of those challenges have been deemed “frivolous” by election officials. In a letter sent to the State Canvassing Board, Elias asks the board to “put an end to this irresponsible conduct, bring the recount to an orderly conclusion, and promptly certify the results of this election.” The letter also said Dayton would withdraw all 42 of the ballot challenges it has made that election officials have deemed “frivolous.” The Canvassing Board is meeting tomorrow at 2pm to discuss the thousands of frivolous challenges. theuptake.org “Mark Dayton attorney Marc Elias says the Tom Emmer campaign has been “disrespectful” of the recount process with the thousands of ballot challenges it has made. Most of those challenges have been deemed “frivolous” by election officials. In a letter sent to the State Canvassing Board, Elias asks the board to “put an end to this irresponsible conduct, bring the recount to an orderly conclusion, and promptly certify the results of this election.”

The letter also said Dayton would withdraw all 42 of the ballot challenges it has made that election officials have deemed “frivolous.”

The Canvassing Board is meeting tomorrow at 2pm to discuss the thousands of frivolous challenges.

theuptake.org

]]> By: Lojasmo http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31472 Lojasmo Fri, 03 Dec 2010 03:09:21 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31472 Election rules state that those are frivolous challenges. In accordance with the rulings by the election panel from 2008, intent can be clearly determined in all of these (except the one with all the circles filled in). Stupid people get their votes counted, too. As an Emmer supporter, you should be thankful for that. Election rules state that those are frivolous challenges. In accordance with the rulings by the election panel from 2008, intent can be clearly determined in all of these (except the one with all the circles filled in).

Stupid people get their votes counted, too. As an Emmer supporter, you should be thankful for that.

]]> By: spy1 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31471 spy1 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 02:49:37 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31471 I think a good many of those ballots have legit overvotes. If I had to guess, the language was tripping up people when it says to choose one "team." Some people took that to mean a person each from an oval and not the candidate and running mate alone. It should maybe say "fill in one oval for your candidate." But, yeah, people should know you can't have a Green Party lieutenant governor serving with Emmer. I think a good many of those ballots have legit overvotes. If I had to guess, the language was tripping up people when it says to choose one “team.” Some people took that to mean a person each from an oval and not the candidate and running mate alone. It should maybe say “fill in one oval for your candidate.” But, yeah, people should know you can’t have a Green Party lieutenant governor serving with Emmer.

]]> By: Jadiaz http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31467 Jadiaz Fri, 03 Dec 2010 01:49:29 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31467 I'm OK with the ones being challenged in the original post. If you're too stupid to mark only one oval as the instructions state, your vote shouldn't count anyway. That being said, I would prefer Emmer as governor, but know Dayton won and am upset that Emmer is pulling this crap. I’m OK with the ones being challenged in the original post. If you’re too stupid to mark only one oval as the instructions state, your vote shouldn’t count anyway. That being said, I would prefer Emmer as governor, but know Dayton won and am upset that Emmer is pulling this crap.

]]> By: Lojasmo http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31464 Lojasmo Fri, 03 Dec 2010 00:07:02 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31464 All complete bullshit. Tony Sutton's stated goal is to challenge 8800 ballots. Period. All complete bullshit. Tony Sutton’s stated goal is to challenge 8800 ballots. Period.

]]> By: spy1 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31457 spy1 Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:37:10 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31457 Todo: It's obvious. There is a small mark in the Emmer oval, an obvious overvote. ; ) Todo: It’s obvious. There is a small mark in the Emmer oval, an obvious overvote. ; )

]]> By: todobrillante http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31456 todobrillante Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:36:14 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31456 Sorry about the double post: but this one also is unclear as to what the basis for the challenge is... http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Blue_Earth/BlueEarth_CityOfMankatoPct13_1.pdf And this one seems desperate: http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Blue_Earth/BlueEarth_VernonCenterTwp_1.pdf And I just don't understand why this one is being considered at all: http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Carver/Carver_BentonTwp_1.pdf I have to be done looking at these or else my head will pop off 99% of the way and I will walk around looking like a hanging chad. Sorry about the double post: but this one also is unclear as to what the basis for the challenge is…
http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Blue_Earth/BlueEarth_CityOfMankatoPct13_1.pdf

And this one seems desperate:
http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Blue_Earth/BlueEarth_VernonCenterTwp_1.pdf

And I just don’t understand why this one is being considered at all:
http://www.sos.state.mn.us/2010_governor_recount_challenged_ballots/Carver/Carver_BentonTwp_1.pdf

I have to be done looking at these or else my head will pop off 99% of the way and I will walk around looking like a hanging chad.

]]> By: double barrell darrell http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31455 double barrell darrell Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:35:46 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31455 Emmer's people have stated that they realize the race is lost but are using this as a stall tactic to extend Pawlenty's term. Patriotic. Emmer’s people have stated that they realize the race is lost but are using this as a stall tactic to extend Pawlenty’s term. Patriotic.

]]> By: todobrillante http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31453 todobrillante Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:24:41 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31453 Can someone explain why this one from Mankato is challenged? <a href="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ballotz.jpg" rel="nofollow"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-23835" title="ballotz" src="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ballotz.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="217" /></a> Can someone explain why this one from Mankato is challenged?

]]> By: Spy1 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31448 Spy1 Thu, 02 Dec 2010 20:53:52 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31448 Yes. Double vision. From Mankato: <a href="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/balloty.jpg" rel="nofollow"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-23802" title="balloty" src="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/balloty.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="215" /></a> Yes. Double vision. From Mankato:

]]> By: Heidi http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31446 Heidi Thu, 02 Dec 2010 20:40:13 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2010/12/02/afternoon-killer/#comment-31446 My fav so far, from LakeView Township in Becker County: <a href="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ballotx.jpg" rel="nofollow"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-23799" title="ballotx" src="http://www.perfectduluthday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ballotx.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="211" /></a> This is a time waster. :) My fav so far, from LakeView Township in Becker County:

This is a time waster. :)

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