Why DOES Duluth deserve fiber-optic based internet access?

With three amazing colleges in the area, producing some of the most intelligent minds Minnesota has to offer, investment in the future of technological progress in Duluth already seems like a good idea. Recently, however, with the advent of Mayor Don Ness’s term, our city has seen a robust growth on the involvement of younger generations in the politics of the region. These are the same minds that, generally speaking, fully comprehend the vast value of human inter-connectivity and the ability to utilize cloud data to apply distributive processing to the human intellect. Duluth in particular represents a bastion of human kindness and advanced social responsibility the likes of which are nearly incomprehensible on a large-city scale; our downtown area is immensely reflective of this. As a veteran of the United States Air Force, I’ve witnessed firsthand not only the inhuman characteristics and notions of self-entitlement prevalent in cities such as Tokyo, but also the indifference and uncaring attitudes fostered by lackadaisical local political forces in a two-city region, as the Shreveport/Bossier area of Louisiana proved so succinctly for me.

In short, Duluth and Superior represent the best-functioning example of an interstate relationship between two medium-sized cities, united by a common goal: survive the next winter.

56 Comments

Paul Lundgren

about 14 years ago

I have to say that I do not comprehend at all "the ability to utilize cloud data to apply distributive processing to the human intellect."

But I'm a year older than Mayor Ness, so maybe I'm not supposed to understand all that younger generation stuff.

TimK

about 14 years ago

You damn kids get outta my yard!

Barrett Chase

about 14 years ago

As someone who graduated from one of those "amazing colleges" in the field of English, it's my opinion that someone needs to put down the thesaurus.

Calk

about 14 years ago

I like the last sentence about all of us united by a common goal: surviving winter. I think that is the secret ingredient in "Duluth Nice."

baci

about 14 years ago

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Ben

about 14 years ago

"Bastion of human kindness?"

Johnny

about 14 years ago

While babbling about using "big" words, you have not succeeded in relaying any information to the audience. I couldn't agree more, put away the thesaurus.

Professor Hallory

about 14 years ago

Thank you Nick for such a unique explanation of why Duluth deserves fiber optic based internet. I think I will use this in my class as an example of how to obfuscate the main topic. There are some worthwile comments above that may help your writing grow if you are willing to accept them.

Ben #2

about 14 years ago

"Duluth in particular represents a bastion of human kindness and advanced social responsibility the likes of which are nearly incomprehensible on a large-city scale; our downtown area is immensely reflective of this."

While I love Duluth, can you cite any specific examples that support this statement? I've found that kind humans exist everywhere, even in large cities like New York and Los Angeles. How does Duluth exhibit its "advanced social responsibility" more than other cities?

Paul Lundgren

about 14 years ago

If he had wrote about Duluth's advanced ability to be critical he would have been on to something!

-Berv

about 14 years ago

Indeed, point taken already!

Ramos

about 14 years ago

If the little bastards who ran away from my cab without paying had tripped over the bastion of human kindness, I might have caught them.

Calk

about 14 years ago

@Ramos, that's why NYC cabbies lock their doors until you pay up! Why aren't you doing that?

Ramos

about 14 years ago

When they're younger, I prefer to keep them cowed with my authority, but that didn't work in this case. One walked away to get the money and never came back. I had the other in the back of the cab while I was standing outside. As I dialed my cell phone, he went out the back window, landed on the ground with a painful sort of sound, got up and was gone. Panic will do that to you.

Due to all the recent running and no-pays, the police department is proposing an ordinance that empowers cab drivers to collect their fares up front between midnight and 6 a.m.

kramer

about 14 years ago

is this poster a sock puppet?

NickSjelin

about 14 years ago

Oh, dear me.  It seems I've said too much, and/or nothing at all.  Me ineptum.  Have ability to overexert the... er, drop my tongue, or something... hits the floor like hot jam, just getting everywhere, like in the cracks and stuff and it's really sticky.  Can't pick it all up; lost something or someone along the way... don't have a thesaurus, wouldn't do any good anyway.  Can't corrupt the captured ramble; it's wrong or something.  No, just an empty head full of disconnected and pointless references to vague memories.  More human conditioning than the human condition.  Nobody here but us chickens.  Lessover, when it all starts to form a whole of cognitive abilities reinforced by sound experience and harsh wisdom... is that when you might be selorcted for consonderation as an operortionable and forley-fornktional contributor to society on a mourningful scalre.. er... e...?

Hey, gomennasai; eto, I'm not sockpuppeting, puppeteering, trawling, or eating a delicious chicken dinner.  (Hurr, like it'd be necessory. I had me one of them two fister jobbies at that Burrito Unionizer.  I have been full for like a ½ day.)

Kind of Søren Kierkegaarding it up.  Hair-wise, that is.

OH YEAH!  Before I forget (and I was the Kool-Aid Man for Halloween last year, but that's not this thing):

2003 Murder Rate Per Capita
Duluth, MN: 40% lower than national average.
Shreveport, LA: 175% higher than national average

That's just the "killing people" deal that some "people" (read:aminuls) are inclined toward.  Check out the rest.  Maybe do some other comparisons to other cities:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yayexsl
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ydeae9e

It's totally probably the heat.  Y'all don't even KNOW how lucky you are seriosly guys.  Snow is like candy for our hearts, om nommers, and the winter warmth we create with each other makes fer a magical cityplace.  No more cynicism, yous guys.  Keep Duluth good; make it awesomer.

Carla

about 14 years ago

Ok - that thing about the cloud data.
Seriously, could you explain that?
I'm just a simple minded Auntie Penure.

Piglet

about 14 years ago

Nicely done everyone. I so enjoy the witty banter and observations!

Anybody else having trouble clicking on the link to vote for the Google fiber project? I get a funky page error. Not sure that my vote counts as I live outside of the city limits but I'm all for the project. Especially if it would extend say...15 miles from downtown.

thedoog

about 14 years ago

Google it Carla. Ha, see what I did there?

huitz

about 14 years ago

It doesn't.  In the words of Davidson and Rugge, "it's like throwing good sugar at bad biscuits."

Don't get me wrong, but let's be realistic.  Google might throw a bone to a few small cities, but I don't see any added value for Duluth in this case, or, for that matter, Google, or pretty much anybody.  Yes, I'm a cynic, but we have to see it for what it is; just a political potential.  You might be able to play the medical industry we have that's located pretty densely, but I think that's about it.

TimK

about 14 years ago

Huitz, you lack imagination. I would use a fiber connection to do A/V production with colleagues in different cities. Various departments at UMD could take advantage of research from other location, too. You could watch internet movies on your TV in real-time (without being gouged by Charter!) This is just off the top of my head in 30 seconds. In the end, no one gets what they truly "deserve." Unless, of course, we get Google fiber run to every home and business in town- except Huitz.

adam

about 14 years ago

Especially combined with the new Cisco CRS-3.

Using a CRS-3, every person in China, which has a population just over 1.3 billion, could participate in a video phone call at the same time. (Or you could pump nearly one Library of Congress per second through the device, or give everyone in San Fransisco a 1Gbps internet connection.) AT&T said it has been using the CRS-3 to test 100Gbit/sec. data links in tests on a commercial fiber route in Florida and Louisiana."

NickSjelin

about 14 years ago

Huitz... there's mountains of added value potential.  Think: Google is pro-Net Neutrality.  Their research and development has been centered on interconnected services.  Cloud data combined with distributed processing is the direction of their planned growth; this is arguably paralleled in humans as we, too, become more connected to each other across greater distances, collaborating on occasion to create extraordinary examples of raw human intellectual power.  Keeping that network free of malicious deep-packet inspection, bandwidth throttling, and tiered usage pricing keeps the minds that use it free, unhindered and uncensored.  Securing a place for Duluth and Superior to connect to that unfiltered, free-range internets that Google has championed for all these years at 1000 megabits per second?  PER USER?  Do you understand how absolutely incredible that is?  Quantum Leap-o'clock, sans Bakula.  Stereoscopic 1080p24 video would be able to be compressed on-the-fly and transmitted bi-directionally by researchers throughout the high-speed network INSTANTANEOUSLY.  Scientific research in the area (e.g. Duluth EPA) would benefit IMMENSELY from the increase in bandwidth; many government facilities in our area split a T1 connection between far too many computers, costing maybe a lot of money in like lost productivity and stuff omg who knows lol.  Erm.  Gifted minds would become attracted to this network and would follow it.  Bringing us money.  And smartness.  Or something.

carla

about 14 years ago

It would have meaning if someone took the time to put meaningful data online. When I am researching anything now the library ALWAYS wins out over Google (well, a good university library). So I can see how it might be amazing for everyone in China to be on the same phone call. But how would that move anything forward? Garbage in garbage out.

TimK

about 14 years ago

Yes- if Duluth gets Google fiber, the only good that will come of it is Chinese conference calls. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! Come on, people! If you don't comprehend what the potential is here, don't advertise your lack of understanding. ASK intelligent questions, instead of nit-picking the over the margins.

kramer

about 14 years ago

oh, for god sake... stop acting like it's going to change the world! MOST people are going to use it to download porn, watch movies, and play video games. They don't need to wire the whole damn town to improve connectivity in just a few local agencies. This is about google profit. This is about google taking the next steps to gain even more control over how information and meaning is produced on the internet. Everyone is getting all excited, but what will we really gain? You have to pay them to run it to your house- it's not free! Then google is going to bill you god knows how much every month to use it- all the while continuing to exploit your personal information and browsing habits to make millions of dollars in ad revenue. Soon you will be paying google for access, browsing in googles operating system, searching with googles engines, buying from googles websites, reading online books owned by google... how much power should one corporation have over how we use the web? Name ONE job that either Ness or Google has promised from this spectacle. Our benefit is all speculation, but google is sure to make billions. Heaven forbid if anyone asks any questions when a huge multinational corporation wants to swoop down into your town from the heavens and shower us with "gifts".

tony

about 14 years ago

The lack of imagination in kramer's post is astounding. kramer, just think for a second -- putting away your ridiculous conspiracy theories about Google being responsible for chemtrails or whatever -- about what one of the biggest companies in the world coming to town to install the latest and greatest technology could spark (besides enslaving us all and forcing us to work in labor camps). Do you think that maybe lots of other companies might be inspired to come to Duluth to benefit from this latest-and-greatest tech? Do you think they might start employing the thousands of college kids that come streaming out of the doors of our many colleges every spring, usually bound for bigger, hipper, more technologically-advanced places? As well as the highly-qualified locals who have sacrificed the ability to earn big money for living in such a beautiful place? 

No, you're probably right. Google wants to harvest our organs and keep us alive in pods, using our electromagnetic energy to power their doomsday machine.

kramer

about 14 years ago

You're the expert. I'll apologize for my silliness when I'm in a conference call with 1.3 billion Chinese people.

tony

about 14 years ago

Why would that happen, exactly?

NickSjelin

about 14 years ago

@tony:
kramer's HUGE in China.  He's like their Elvis.

adam

about 14 years ago

1.3 billion Chinese people conducting voice calls simultaneously was an illustration of bandwidth capacity, for fuck sake.

kramer

about 14 years ago

why are you getting so angry? is there no room here for meaningful discourse on a subject that could dramatically change our city? All I'm doing is asking questions. Since when is corporate profit a conspiracy theory? Just look at our history here. For example, some duluth official tells us that we're going to spend a ton of money on a tech center for downtown in order to foster economic growth and attract larger businesses to our city. Nobody asks any questions, they do it, and it fails. Then we're told about how a new Great Lakes Aquarium will rake in millions of tourism dollars and stimulate our local economy. Nobody asks any questions, they do it, and it fails. Then Cirrus Design is going to move in and give us thousands of jobs and promote new industry. Nobody asks any questions, they do it, and people get laid off and cirrus drags its feet on paying our city for the land it's leasing. Now we have google fiber. What could potentially go wrong there? Let's say we win it, and google wires up our town, and we can finally instantly download porn all over the city faster than 14 kilobits a second. Google ends up being pleased with the results, and decides that within a few years every city in the US will be on board with fiber. It's the new standard. Now, everyone has fiber. Is Duluth still special? Was there enough time for major corporations from all over the world to flock here so they could take advantage of our fantastic new technology, or will they just wire it up in their own town? Could that not happen? Am I talking about pod people taking over the world? Of course I understand the potential for fiber, and who doesn't want instant internet? But, it's coming everywhere no matter what- So what's the difference if it starts or ends here? It's about time we started chewing on some of these ideas instead of swallowing them whole.

huitz

about 14 years ago

@TimK

I hope you are right.  But does Tim or huitz actually need fiber-to-home?  If I worked at Google, I would express a resounding no.  (that's ok, you can joke about why I don't work at Google).

Truth is, your visionary idea of fiber causing increase of twin ports productivity lacks vision.  Come up with something better and I'll believe you.

Okay, that was the mean part.  Realistically, Google has nothing to benefit by choosing Duluth.  It sucks that's the case, but that's mostly how it goes.  If Duluth somehow wins, I'll be a little bit out of sorts, because there's simply no real benefit in it.

A network engineer telling you straight up...

You don't need fiber to your house.  I suspect that the whole point is to put Duluth on the radar again.

Your fiber is most likely shared by a bunch of people, anyway.  So, your "gigabit" will still probably be less than 384k (which, I admit, is a lot), but not guaranteed.  We had a similar situation a while back.

Not only that, your comm network is small, so speaking in social levels, it's almost as if you've cut yourself off from everyone outside of your small circle.  The only thing you've done is move the bottleneck.

Barrett Chase

about 14 years ago

According to the Google Twin Ports Fiber Initiative:

This change would make what you have now feel like a dial-up connection. Just like when broadband replaced dial-up you were able to view videos online and use the Internet more effectively, ultra high-speed bandwidth will create a new wave of innovation. Many of the new web-based applications that are being developed that require higher speed include high-definition video. The services being developed will allow the elderly for example to interact with medical specialists and relatives in other cities from the comfort of their homes through high quality video feeds. Benefits also include teachers working remotely with students in vastly superior ways than the current Internet allows, and dramatically increasing access to more jobs. ... It would serve as a colossal, new economic engine, akin to the benefits of sitting beside Lake Superior. The experiment would likely turn Duluth-Superior into a Midwestern technology-innovation hub. Many new programs and services requiring ultra-high speed fiber will naturally be created in communities that have fiber. Many existing businesses now want their employees to have the speed and access at home that they have in their business facilities. People could also return to the region, precisely because they could work from here, thanks to the high Internet speeds. This project would bring the kind of outside economic investment and international attention to Duluth-Superior that came to the first towns that received the railroad or electricity.

huitz

about 14 years ago

Barret, I usually disagree with you, but wow, sometimes you blow my mind.

Barrett Chase

about 14 years ago

I'm not sure how to take that. I wasn't expressing any opinion, just linking to the official statement.

TimK

about 14 years ago

What Barrett said. Google is not yet a telecom. When they wire up a community with fiber, they will be. The other telecoms in the early 90s told congress that if they could operate without oppressive government regulation, they would have high speed internet to every home in the US and there'd be all sorts of competition and the market would make it all just great for the average joe. Well, none of that ever happened. Telecoms formed monopolies that stifled competition (how many cable companies are there in Duluth?) and used the lack of regulations to give crappier and crappier service while raising prices. They did almost zero infrastructure. So now comes Google (maybe they do want to take over the world- but hey, their corporate motto is "first do no harm") and they are going to run fiber throughout the community giving us actual competition AND innovation. Just think of what kind of trouble Baci is going to be able to cause with that kind of bandwidth!

Nick

about 14 years ago

Google's motto is "Don't be evil."

I don't think they are as innocent as they'd like to appear, but I also think the fiber could be a good thing for Duluth.

huitz

about 14 years ago

@Barret

Take it as an honest complement, or take it whatever way you want.

Carla

about 14 years ago

I'm just saying - what is the use of speed if all that is on the other end is Wikipedia, World of Warcraft and You Toob?

-Berv

about 14 years ago

This is my favorite discussion in a long time here.

Terry G.

about 14 years ago

Carla - it's not just about the internet. It's about communicating (in a broad sense) - remotely.

I worked from home on a DSL line doing web development -  video conferenced daily with workmates back in the office. That's a minor use of bandwidth that is not just browser-related. 

I'm certain there are thousands of such uses happening daily in the Twin Ports area as, like it or not, we are isolated.

Pete

about 14 years ago

Thanks Kramer for at least giving it a shot. Tired of so many projects being sold in this town without a serious look at costs/benefits.
Say "jobs or tourists" and break out the bibs for all those salivating dogs.

TimK

about 14 years ago

One of the reasons that I support the google initiative (and believe me, I opposed the aquarium, the tech center, the USS Des Moines, etc.) was that Google is dropping the dime. The city might have to tweak some right-of-way ordinance or whatnot, but the taxpayers won't be on the hook. Google is running the fiber, not the City of Duluth. The cost/benefit analysis is of no concern to me. Google will not make money on this, I'm sure. In fact, in the future, I ask that all major projects in the city be run past me personally so that the uninformed among us don't have to worry their pretty little heads. Yes, I am smarter than you.

Pete

about 14 years ago

Dazzling. Per the postcards (!) "At a cost no more than my existing service, I want to have Google Fiber in my home." For how long? Introductory offer?

Details on that "tweaking." This city cannot keep a paved road in town. The cost/benefit analysis could be important to, gosh, the citizens in this town. But maybe the smarter folks are just so much more entitled.

TimK

about 14 years ago

Yeah, I want to start a business in Duluth offering a service to people. I will charge a competitive rate compared to the existing services available. Mine will be better. Please, let some stupid bloggers determine whether or not I can start said business. I agree to do this without government money. Please, please- let stupid bloggers do a cost-benefit analysis for my private business to determine if I should do it. And, the stupid bloggers need to pay for said analysis.

adam

about 14 years ago

I'm half tempted to register duluthstupidbloggeranalysis.com.

The Big E

about 14 years ago

Our devastated asphalt will make it a lot easier for them to bury cable, Pete.

TimK

about 14 years ago

Let's make sure that Hanabi, Zeitgeist and Mexico Lindo all provide some sort of cost/benefit analysis, too. It's the only way to make sure Duluth doesn't get screwed by the private sector.

huitz

about 14 years ago

Somebody please show me plans for a shared super-computer over the potential Duluth connect.  Then, I'll be like "wahoo!".

News headline fill say, "Fast links help local community".  Please.

I don't mean to be a naysayer, but in all honesty, it smells like a pipe dream.  The only one to produce an interesting argument is Barrett's copy (sorry I misspelled your name earlier).

Look at the big picture.  Wouldn't you think that such a project would be better put to use in a place like Missoula, or Seattle, or even Redmond?  Okay, here's one for you, Virginia, MN?

Duluth is awesome.  I love the place, but it doesn't stand much to gain by fast local network.

(No, I'm not a voter, so my opinion means naught; have a nice day :)

The only way I envision Google dropping in to Duluth is if they have a few extra bucks.  I'm not trying to be a meanie, but wouldn't you throw the infrastructure where it could be put to really good use?  Like, um, me learning grammar.

Credentials (or, how you might believe me): Great uncle used to write EIA reports for pipeline in Alaska.  A few friends in network circles.

Believe me; I will swallow every word on this topic if Duluth get's fiber-by-Google.

Carla

about 14 years ago

OK - so in my role as stupidest - I voted for the Google thing and have not bad mouthed it.

We used two DSL lines for a long time at our business and had to switch to T1 because DSL was not reliable and kept going down which made customers using credit cards unhappy.  For said T1 we pay a lot - I cannot imagine that Google will be more - although it could be.

What I am trying to say does not pertain to Google. I am just lamenting the fact that so much more focus on the internet seems to be going toward technical wizardry and advertising than on the production of stimulating content. And by stimulating content I am not talking about the latest ED Ad or urban legend or stupid joke.
My .02
Thanks

adam

about 14 years ago

A T1 for credit card transactions??

Carla

about 14 years ago

Credit cards - yes because you cannot get QOS guarantee with dsl or cable
music in two areas
ordering
website maintenance
emailing graphics for advertising
epicurious
downloading equipment manuals
etc
etc
etc

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