Comments on: A little history http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-little-history Duluth Minnesota Blog and News Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:20:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dave Sorensen http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12096 Dave Sorensen Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:05:18 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12096 This is from former British ambassador Craig Murray: "Karzai comes directly from the Bush camp and was put in place because of his role with Unocal in developing the Trans Afghanistan Gas Pipeline project. That remains a chief strategic goal. The Asian Development Bank has agreed finance to start construction in Spring 2011. It is of course a total coincidence that 30,000 extra US troops will arrive six months before, and that the US (as opposed to other NATO forces) deployment area corresponds with the pipeline route." http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/12/obama_is_wrong.html This is from former British ambassador Craig Murray:
“Karzai comes directly from the Bush camp and was put in place because of his role with Unocal in developing the Trans Afghanistan Gas Pipeline project. That remains a chief strategic goal. The Asian Development Bank has agreed finance to start construction in Spring 2011. It is of course a total coincidence that 30,000 extra US troops will arrive six months before, and that the US (as opposed to other NATO forces) deployment area corresponds with the pipeline route.”
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/12/obama_is_wrong.html

]]> By: lojasmo http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12081 lojasmo Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:58:32 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12081 "Where am I wrong" Everywhere you write. “Where am I wrong”

Everywhere you write.

]]> By: adam http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12076 adam Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:43:33 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12076 Frank, here's a couple links on revoking corporate charters I spoke about (though most of this is eco-based, it does cover some common-law history): • <a href="http://www.celdf.org/ProgramAreas/CorporationsDemocracy/CorporationsDemocracyIndex/tabid/108/ctl/Edit/mid/429/CorporationsDemocracy/ACitizensGuidetoCorporateCharter/tabid/104/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">one</a> • <a href="http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2002/02oct-nov/oct-nov02corp1.html" rel="nofollow">two</a> • <a href="http://sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/96-06%20JUNE/stratagies2revoke.html" rel="nofollow">three</a> Frank, here’s a couple links on revoking corporate charters I spoke about (though most of this is eco-based, it does cover some common-law history):

• one
• two
• three

]]> By: Resolutionary http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12075 Resolutionary Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:38:23 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12075 Oh and being in the political center means you're a whore for corporations without ideallogy (a sense of morals) getting in the way. I'm looking at you Joe Lieberman, you slutty pooch. Oh and being in the political center means you’re a whore for corporations without ideallogy (a sense of morals) getting in the way. I’m looking at you Joe Lieberman, you slutty pooch.

]]> By: adam http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12073 adam Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:34:17 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12073 <i>"...among the corporatists in Washington, and the 'center' among the people at large..."</i> Corporations are people. They have more money than you. They get the wins. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood_debate" rel="nofollow">Pay</a> effing <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad" rel="nofollow">attention</a>. “…among the corporatists in Washington, and the ‘center’ among the people at large…”

Corporations are people. They have more money than you. They get the wins. Pay effing attention.

]]> By: Resolutionary http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12072 Resolutionary Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:31:36 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12072 Great Cheney quote Frank. I think those pipe(line) dreams have faded though. On any given day, if I were asked whether I approve of Obama, I'd possibly launch into a diatribe about the squishy, over-compromiser. Obama has been too careful as president, and has not yet been bold. I long for an FDR-type visionary leader that will take drastic action and confidently say what people need to hear rather than what they want to hear. Despite concerns (many of them are on Dave Sorensen’s list) I will defend Obama to his detractors and work to get his agenda passed. We also need to understand that the government is not homogenous, and Obama is just one part. It’s unclear how much say he really has over the war, and I think his choice of Messer Geithner as Treasury Secretary shows he has about as much influence over Wall Street as Clinton did. Not much. People only get what they stand up and demand. No more. If citizens demanded we restore Glass-Stegal, demanded the to-big-to-fail banks get broken up or liquidated, demanded real consumer protection from the Wall Street predators; only then could Obama deliver real reform. But, frustration is justified. Frankly, it looks like the Patriot Act will be renewed without resistance or discussion. Great Cheney quote Frank. I think those pipe(line) dreams have faded though.

On any given day, if I were asked whether I approve of Obama, I’d possibly launch into a diatribe about the squishy, over-compromiser. Obama has been too careful as president, and has not yet been bold. I long for an FDR-type visionary leader that will take drastic action and confidently say what people need to hear rather than what they want to hear. Despite concerns (many of them are on Dave Sorensen’s list) I will defend Obama to his detractors and work to get his agenda passed.

We also need to understand that the government is not homogenous, and Obama is just one part. It’s unclear how much say he really has over the war, and I think his choice of Messer Geithner as Treasury Secretary shows he has about as much influence over Wall Street as Clinton did. Not much.

People only get what they stand up and demand. No more. If citizens demanded we restore Glass-Stegal, demanded the to-big-to-fail banks get broken up or liquidated, demanded real consumer protection from the Wall Street predators; only then could Obama deliver real reform.

But, frustration is justified. Frankly, it looks like the Patriot Act will be renewed without resistance or discussion.

]]> By: zra http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12063 zra Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:59:55 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12063 "Take care of ourselves and if it is right, the world will decide for them selves" kinda sounds like: "Take care of ourselves and if it is right, the free market will take care of itself." “Take care of ourselves and if it is right, the world will decide for them selves”

kinda sounds like:

“Take care of ourselves and if it is right, the free market will take care of itself.”

]]> By: Dave Sorensen http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12062 Dave Sorensen Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:40:09 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12062 Pipeline or no, Afghanistan is important to the powers-that-be because of its strategic location next to Central Asian oil and gas, Russia, China, etc. We all know the cover story for our being there, but as has been mentioned, the invasion was in the works before 9-11. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm The names "Republican" and "Democrat" are almost meaningless. Clinton was considered a "centrist" Democrat, but economically he was as conservative as Nixon. After the proto-fascists of the Bush administration the center has swung so far to the right that anyone to the "left" of them seems like a flaming liberal. Hardly. It seems that most of politicians on the national level are corporatists, and any swinging of the political pendulum is merely a game of "good cop/ bad cop" . However, polls show that on issues such as health care, the environment, labor issues, you name it, the PUBLIC is to the "left" of most democrats. So there is the "center" among the corporatists in Washington, and the "center" among the people at large. If Americans were better informed and less amnesiac, maybe our "center" would more resemble Sweden's. There's a mountain of propaganda which comes out every day to make sure that won't happen.Obama did not tilt to the "left" on: The Patriot Act State Secrets The Wall St Bailout Afghanistan The torture cover-up Unlimited detention without trial Extending the state of emergency enacted after 9-11 The telecoms' wiretapping NAFTA ( a campaign promise) Tim Geithner Lawrence Summers Oh, crap, you get the idea. Is that the "center"? Pipeline or no, Afghanistan is important to the powers-that-be because of its strategic location next to Central Asian oil and gas, Russia, China, etc. We all know the cover story for our being there, but as has been mentioned, the invasion was in the works before 9-11.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm
The names “Republican” and “Democrat” are almost meaningless. Clinton was considered a “centrist” Democrat, but economically he was as conservative as Nixon. After the proto-fascists of the Bush administration the center has swung so far to the right that anyone to the “left” of them seems like a flaming liberal. Hardly. It seems that most of politicians on the national level are corporatists, and any swinging of the political pendulum is merely a game of “good cop/ bad cop” . However, polls show that on issues such as health care, the environment, labor issues, you name it, the PUBLIC is to the “left” of most democrats. So there is the “center” among the corporatists in Washington, and the “center” among the people at large. If Americans were better informed and less amnesiac, maybe our “center” would more resemble Sweden’s. There’s a mountain of propaganda which comes out every day to make sure that won’t happen.Obama did not tilt to the “left” on:
The Patriot Act
State Secrets
The Wall St Bailout
Afghanistan
The torture cover-up
Unlimited detention without trial
Extending the state of emergency enacted after 9-11
The telecoms’ wiretapping
NAFTA ( a campaign promise)
Tim Geithner
Lawrence Summers
Oh, crap, you get the idea. Is that the “center”?

]]> By: frank nichols http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12060 frank nichols Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:17:25 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12060 Take care of ourselves and if it is right, the world will decide for them selves Take care of ourselves and if it is right, the world will decide for them selves

]]> By: edgeways http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/comment-page-1/#comment-12058 edgeways Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:55:56 +0000 http://www.perfectduluthday.com/2009/12/01/a-little-history/#comment-12058 given the stated goal is to start removing troops at the start of 2011 (a year) I don't think any pipeline is seriously in the works. That may have (_may have_) been a motivating factor to the start of the war, but at this juncture I don't think it is an anticipated US Gov strategy. Frankly, I want us out of Afghanistan as much as many people do, but I also think just pulling out unilaterally was never in the cards, it would have left a lot of other people flat footed, a huge power vacuum, and cost the US a lot in credibility in many quarters. Now, if you're an isolationist as indicated, I don't think anything the US government under any president, will do is going to be terribly conducive to your cause. I tend to think isolationism as a national policy makes populations more xenophobic in the long run, and in any way is just not realistic to expect in our current societal scale. Intentional communities are perhaps the biggest form of semi-isolationism we can hope for currently that have any hope of continuity, but even those can easily get bogged down in internal strife resulting in disillusionment. Obama is not a Republican, he IS a centrist Democrat with a tilt to the left on some issues, and I know that is almost an equally dirty word to many. It have been clear for a long time he was a centrist, and what that means is that sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes I do not. given the stated goal is to start removing troops at the start of 2011 (a year) I don’t think any pipeline is seriously in the works. That may have (_may have_) been a motivating factor to the start of the war, but at this juncture I don’t think it is an anticipated US Gov strategy. Frankly, I want us out of Afghanistan as much as many people do, but I also think just pulling out unilaterally was never in the cards, it would have left a lot of other people flat footed, a huge power vacuum, and cost the US a lot in credibility in many quarters.
Now, if you’re an isolationist as indicated, I don’t think anything the US government under any president, will do is going to be terribly conducive to your cause. I tend to think isolationism as a national policy makes populations more xenophobic in the long run, and in any way is just not realistic to expect in our current societal scale. Intentional communities are perhaps the biggest form of semi-isolationism we can hope for currently that have any hope of continuity, but even those can easily get bogged down in internal strife resulting in disillusionment.

Obama is not a Republican, he IS a centrist Democrat with a tilt to the left on some issues, and I know that is almost an equally dirty word to many. It have been clear for a long time he was a centrist, and what that means is that sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes I do not.

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